Reduce FFE weight by...

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RickInAustin

Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2014
Messages
17
Location
Austin, TX
I've ordered a 2014 FFE and it's scheduled to arrive the second week in July. I'm very excited!

Has anyone considered removing the back seat to reduce weight and increase cargo space?
 
First off congratulations! If you are like most of us here, you will love the car.

Now to your question - I guess if you only hauled cargo and never needed the rear seats that would be an option. And while removing the seats would give you more space, I'm not sure the weight savings would provide any significant performance gain.

Consider the following:

We know F= m * a and thus a = F/m

From this we can see if we reduce mass by say 10% we will improve acceleration by 10%. And since V = a * t, our 0-60mph time would also improve by the same 10%. Range, on the other hand, would improve by a much smaller margin since accelerating the mass is only part of the problem (vs fighting wind and road resistance). But lets ignore range for the moment (even though that is what we care most about) and look at 0-60 time (since it is easier to analyze in this case).

The FFE weighs 3624 lbs and does 0-60 in 9.5 sec (or so says my Google search). A 10% weight reduction would mean loosing 362 lbs and would improve 0-60 by ~0.9 sec. Removing rear seats might gain you 50 lbs or so. With lighter wheels, a LiPo 12V battery, rear seats gone, and a few other mods you might get 100 lbs or so. That's a 2.8% reduction, or 1/4 sec off the 0-60 time. Big improvement if you are drag racing, but probably meaningless otherwise.

Oh, and just for grins, the ST Focus does 0-60 in 5.9 sec. You would have to remove over 2000lbs from the FFE to match that figure (assuming weight reduction was the only improvement you could make).
 
A range increase would probably be more substantial than an acceleration increase with weight reduction in the FFE.
 
You'd be better off smoothing out the belly of the FFE. The underside of the car looks anything but aerodynamic.
 
scoops said:
You'd be better off smoothing out the belly of the FFE. The underside of the car looks anything but aerodynamic.

Yeah, I was surprised when I took a look under there. I was expecting something more like the Lotus Elise with a thick plastic sheet covering the entire underside. Hummm....might be an interesting mod - could be used on the ICE Focuii as well.
 
kmaluo said:
A range increase would probably be more substantial than an acceleration increase with weight reduction in the FFE.

I'm not sure I understand your reasoning here. Weight comes into play while accelerating. Once in motion the energy is being used to fight friction - mainly wind and rolling resistance. Reducing weight will not impact the wind resistance and will probably have minimal impact on rolling resistance. But maybe I'm missing something. Please explain.

Thanks,
Mark
 
Weight should have some impact on rolling resistance as it will change how much the tires deform--much like the discussion about wide vs skinny tires. Less weight on the tires means less deformation means less rolling resistance.
I agree though, the 50 or so lbs of weight saved by removing the rear seats wouldn't change much.
You can experiment with this--without removing seats: Simply by carrying more passengers. Do you notice an increase in power consumption when an additional person is riding in the car? (I haven't..)
 
TexaCali said:
Yeah, I was surprised when I took a look under there. I was expecting something more like the Lotus Elise with a thick plastic sheet covering the entire underside. Hummm....might be an interesting mod - could be used on the ICE Focuii as well.

Wanna try taking a stab at calculating what the efficiency improvement would be at hwy speed?
 
scoops said:
TexaCali said:
Yeah, I was surprised when I took a look under there. I was expecting something more like the Lotus Elise with a thick plastic sheet covering the entire underside. Hummm....might be an interesting mod - could be used on the ICE Focuii as well.

Wanna try taking a stab at calculating what the efficiency improvement would be at hwy speed?


Well, according to one paper I saw, wind resistance is about 60% of the total drag on an ICE car at hwy speeds. Drive train was a significant contributor as well, which would be quite negligible in an EV. So let's say wind resistance is 70% of total drag at highway speed for the FFE. Now wind drag is proportional to cross sectional area (A) x drag coefficient (Cd). We aren't changing the cross section area, just the drag coefficient. Let's take a wild guess and say we improve Cd by 10%, which would in turn reduce wind drag at freeway speed by 10%, but that's only 70% of total drag, so we would have reduced total drag by 7%. If you were to accelerate to freeway speed and continue until out of charge (maintaining a constant speed), this would yield about a 7% range improvement. As you start to mix in slowing down, speeding back up, getting on and off the freeway, etc, the impact of reducing aerodynamic drag becomes less and less.
 
So I wonder what the drag reduction would be if the FFE's bottom was smoothed out?
the tesla has a naturally smooth bottom since they incorporated the battery pack as most of the underbody.
And while the tesla has a fairly decent range because of batteries, I'm sure aerodynamics plays a significant role in helping to attain that decent range.

I think every little bit helps so I plan to take a look at the smoothing possibility. A little sheet aluminum isn't all that expensive and if nothing else, it will help to keep underbody corrosion to a minimum. Ontario is addicted to salt in the winter time.
The only thing I can see that might be an issue is ventilation for cooling. Gotta be careful about messing around with OEM engineering.

Zurc.
 
Look at some of the plant videos in this thread ("Ford turning 111"):
http://www.myfocuselectric.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=2059

You'll see them install some of the bracing on the bottom--it may explain why it looks the way it does a little bit more...
 
jmueller065 said:
Look at some of the plant videos in this thread ("Ford turning 111"):
http://www.myfocuselectric.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=2059

You'll see them install some of the bracing on the bottom--it may explain why it looks the way it does a little bit more...
Things move very fast in that video. Do you have a time marker?
 
Thanks everyone for such a great discussion. My FFE is started being built this week and is scheduled to arrive 7/3. So hard to wait!
I love the idea of improving the aerodynamics of the underside of the car.

Anyone think about replacing the hood with something lighter? (like the i3 does)
 
Looking at that video, it looks like ford has put a little bit of effort into "smoothing out the underbody.
Considering that the EV was built into an ICE car, its not a bad job. Items like "we put the charger module where the muffler used to be and the battery where the gas tank used to be" and such makes me shake my head a little but given the economic period that the Focus came out in and the very risky market it was put into along with a slow supply of batteries, its a good effort.
I''d bet that lessons learned from the hodge podge will be put into any BEV that ford decides to build from the ground up. (Nothing wrong with being even a little optimistic.) :)

Zurc.
 
Zurc said:
I''d bet that lessons learned from the hodge podge will be put into any BEV that ford decides to build from the ground up. (Nothing wrong with being even a little optimistic.)
I think we'll know when Ford does the next Focus major redesign (not a refreshing like they did this year).
So we'll have to wait a bit (maybe they will announce what it will look like next year since the redesign is targeted for 2017):
http://www.edmunds.com/car-news/2017-ford-focus-aims-to-be-design-leader.html
 
I just got done do some weight reduction tests as I prep to head to the track day in July (refuelraces.com).

Here is what I pulled and weighed:

Item LBS
Sealant Tire and charger with tray 9.5
bottom tray cover 3.5
rear seat 40 14.5
rear seat 60 (includes center head rest) 30.5
head rests (larger ones both) 3
trunk cover upper 3
lower seat 60 11.5
Lower seat 40 5
bxt67R Battery replacement (switch to 4 lbs lifepo4 unit) 25
floor mats all but driver 2.5
Trunk organizer shelf 12.5

So if I pull/change all those item before I head off to the races, I will be 120.5lbs lighter. Based on the calcs that is almost 5hp more and shaves off 0.3s on the 0-60. Not bad for free.

Forgot to mention, when the rear seats are out, there ton of space in the rear seat area, pretty impressive.
 
magudaman,

Interesting project- what did you replace 12V battery with, as in ampHrs? Do you think that one of these would do?

http://www.batteryspace.com/Li-Ion-Batteries-To-Replace-Lead-Acid-Batteries.aspx
 
magudaman said:
I just got done do some weight reduction tests as I prep to head to the track day in July (refuelraces.com).
...
Forgot to mention, when the rear seats are out, there ton of space in the rear seat area, pretty impressive.
Take any photos by chance?
 
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