Considering giving up the fight

[TDS-03]

So for the last year my 2012 has been slowly getting worse. It started with bad 12v (replaced), was at the dealership for 3 months (they replaced several things under warranty, wire harness, etc.) and then after not figuring out anything else, said it was one of the water pumps. After hearing the repair bill, I told them to give it back to me and I replaced that myself (for $300 instead of over $1200 quote since was not a warranty part).

After, it seemed to work for several trips, then SSN message. I've been just resetting codes and keeping on driving on short trips to grocery, and other errands. I'm now entirely out of the 8 year warranty and entirely frustrated with Ford's handling of this car/warranty. I would bet on the battery being the real issue, but Ford does not appear to care at all.

I'm a Ford guy...I have 3 others currently. I'm sick of dealing with it...it makes me angry as this is such a nice low mileage car otherwise. Still looks practically new otherwise, but its just dying slowly. Has anyone parted one out? Anyone in SoCal want a project?

 

[triangles]

If it was still under warranty when the problems started and they haven't fixed the issue and it ends up being the battery, it's pretty easy to make the argument that legally it should still be covered by warranty. After all it's not your fault their incompetence couldn't properly diagnose the problem until after the warranty expired. Might be worth talking to a lawyer and who knows your local TV news might be interested in fighting on your behalf if they have an investigative report. With the Mach E coming out Ford may not want the bad publicity. Hold their feet to the fire!

What codes is it throwing and hopefully you have been documenting them before clearing them. There are some on here who have had the battery replaced and know what DTCs indicate a problem with the battery. I believe someone even posted the factory workshop manual so you can follow the troubleshooting that your ford tech would given the DTCs it is throwing.

 

[skyguy_6153]

If you come back with a coolant leak in your battery pack, I just posted a guide to help walk you through on how to fix it http://www.myfocuselectric.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=4982
You're now the third person in the past month who I have seen had this problem. I had it in September, but got it fixed by myself and help from other FFE owners.

 

[Heima]

I believe someone even posted the factory workshop manual so you can follow the troubleshooting that your ford tech would given the DTCs it is throwing.

That would be me, and the service manual is here:
http://www.myfocuselectric.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4921#p32331

 

[TDS-03]

If you come back with a coolant leak in your battery pack, I just posted a guide to help walk you through on how to fix it http://www.myfocuselectric.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=4982
You're now the third person in the past month who I have seen had this problem. I had it in September, but got it fixed by myself and help from other FFE owners.

When the car was in for service, they noted that that coolant was low. Of course I kept asking "where did the coolant go then?". They kept telling me they checked the battery and it was dry. I'm going to guess it was BS as I pretty much have the same codes and what appears to be same situation.

I may have to try this as a project. I will have to get several other "projects" out of the way first tho.

I assume it would be of little use, but curious if the coolant was bypassed and removed from the upper pack, could the sensor be bypassed?

 

[electrons]

I gave up the fight Monday. After 5 years of a 2016 Focus Electric, I got a new 2020 Leaf SV 149-mile range version (215 mile range available for more $$ buckaroos). Same color, very similar to the Ford's Kona Blue. New Leafs (Leaves?) are stylish, not ugly like the bug-eyed 1st gen ones.

I had some, not much, trouble with the FFE in the last 5 years. I wrote some threads on my "adventures" here, getting some minor abuse & arguments from stubborn clueless dealership personnel along the way. I assume more would have gone wrong on it from year 6 to 8, the end of the battery & electronics warranty. >>>> Then beyond that, I wonder if Ford would even support it with parts anymore. They don't seem to like this FFE much.

Surprisingly, with 34k miles and $4k in hail damage last year, they valued my trade-in FFE at $6,900. That was more than I was expecting for a 76-mile range 5-year old FFE with hail damage. ( The insurance company handed me a check for $4,000 and I never fixed it. Insurance company told me I didn't have to fix it, so it's legal to just keep the dough when you get hail damage. ) So I guess the "math" is $6900 + $4,000, meaning I really got $10,900 for it. .... I don't know if every dealership would give such a great deal. I didn't do any haggling on the deal.

This month Nissan is rebating $6,000 back on all new Leafs. And, Leafs still have the $7,500 federal tax rebate available. Some states kick in some more $$ too. Leaf sales for 2020 are at about half the number from the last 4 years. They're desperate to move them. The dealership I went to had a huge selection which was nice. Their new Ariya for big bucks will be out in about 10 months, which should be a big hit.

Interesing tech thing about the Leaf that probably applies to the FFE too: The Leaf owner's manual discusses battery heating to keep the electrolyte in there from freezing & they say the heater will kick on, plugged in or not, at -1F and run til it's 14F. A -1F happens regularly in the north so you ought to keep these things garaged up there.

Also, the Leaf's battery is air-cooled, no pipes with coolant in it to ruin the HV battery as happened too often on the FFE.

The Leaf doesn't handle as well as the FFE. It's more comfortable though. More room inside, more cargo room. Leaf rides smoother. Acceleration is about the same. All new Leafs have Automatic Braking to keep from hitting something when you're distracted (more common on new cars).

I'm getting used to the Leaf. I no longer have the "sports car" FFE, miss that handling straight out of "Fast & Furious" hot-hatchback territory.
Leafs are made in Tennessee, though likely of almost all foreign parts. Leaf SV models like mine have the same Michelins the FFE had for low rolling resistance.

 

[Heima]

Thanks for the update, and the info about the Leaf. Hope you get plenty of smiles out of it.

 

[Fat Focus]

I put $500 down on a Mach-E GT this morning. Anyone want to buy a white 2018 FFE with $29k on it?

 

[electrons]

I put $500 down on a Mach-E GT this morning. Anyone want to buy a white 2018 FFE with $29k on it?

Tuck that "$29k" safely in the glovebox, not on the roof or hood please, & I'll buy it for $29k.

You've got plenty of time. The GT won't be out til Sept. '21. Your reservation may be a month or two after that. It should still be eligible for the $7,500 federal tax credit too. Ford sold a lot of PHEV Fusions & C-Maxes yet not anywhere near 200k of them. About 70k PHEVs sold by Ford so far. Only about 10k FFEs of course. 200k is the limit for phase out.

That Mach E GT looks incredible. 600 ft-lbs means you'll feel like you're doing neck exercises every time you stomp on it.

Try trading in your 2018. I was surprised when I just traded in a 2016 FFE for a 2020 Leaf (a week ago) and they gave me $6900 and I got an insurance check for hail damage on it for $4k last year (not repaired), so really that means the low-range 2016 FFE was valued at about $10,900.

Your 2018 is worth that & a couple thousand more I'd think (maybe?). 2018 FFE's are much better than a '16 with all that extra range, almost a new vehicle still, should sell OK on the used car market. Carmax will not give much cash for any used car, but sometimes it still beats a dealership new-car trade-in deal!

 

[Fat Focus]

Haha yeah it's got 29k miles on it. I don't really need the car at this point, working from home. I drive it once a week to play golf, and have a couple other vehicles if I do sell it early. I'd like to trade it in since I think I avoid some sales tax that way.

I'm really looking forward the the Mach-E. I'll opt for the Performance Edition that has an extra 34 foot pounds of torque. It should be just about as fast as my supercharged Shelby. :shock:

 

[Heima]

Don't know why Tesla has not thought of this, but Ford could do something really cool with the Pedestrian Alert System (the artificial sound the car pumps out speakers, so that pedestrians will hear the car).

If you could custom load the sound, imagine racing engine sounds (your GT for example) , aircraft engine sounds, motorcycle sounds, sci-fi sounds, and what I would think perfect for the Mach E, horse galloping sounds.

 

[electrons]

If you could custom load the sound,

I think it has to sound like an engine for a blind person, or person looking the other way, to perceive it as a vehicle. I'd be in favor of sounding like the low-frequency rumble of a V8 maybe. That would require a sub-woofer but worth it probably. Right now my new Leaf makes a tinny, high-frequency with a cheap small light speaker, not a sub-woofer. The old FFE I had would make a weird growl that sounded a little like a "motor" running I guess.

Might also require a decent subwoofer to put a little V8 sound into the cabin for entertainment too. Not just pedestrians outside for safety. Inside I assume you could use the stereo system speakers for effect.

 

[Anti_Climax]

So, similar to the original post on this thread, I've been dealing with ongoing issues that are not triggering codes.

The car fairly often would not run the AC during the hottest part of the day which I absolutely understand may happen if the battery is overheating (it will give full compressor output to the battery loop and bypass the cabin cooling loop) but this was occurring right after removing the car from my L2 charger where the cooling should have been on as soon as the pack temp passed 97F. In fact I'd get home from my morning drive, plug the car in to top back up and when I'd get in the car in the afternoon the battery would be 104-108F which shouldn't be happening at all when the battery is full and the L2 charger is still connected.

I documented this and took it to the dealer. Early on they diagnosed that one of the pumps on the battery coolant loop was "weak" and swapped it out for their hefty sum. That didn't fix the issue and eventually it went back but they were unable to find any issues. After that visit, I'd notice that the AC compressor seemed to cycle a bit more often and the same poor cooling behavior was happening. Eventually, while I was out of town for work, it got to the point where the AC compressor was cycling a few times a minute the entire time it was plugged in to the L2 charger. In the few weeks I was gone it had to have cycled thousands of times. Of course it's under warranty from an unrelated replacement but I'm sure it will wait until 731 days after replacement to die.

I took it back again and this time they found that the refrigerant was low but couldn't find a leak. Topped it up, sent me home and told me to bring it back as soon as I noticed any symptoms. Sure enough they found the dye leaking at the chiller. They fixed that, sent it along and the battery cooling problem got worse than before - not just getting hot but getting hot enough to put it into turtle mode yet somehow not trigger an error code. This occurred the night I brought it home so it went right back but they were unable to replicate it. I took it home again and had it happen immediately.

At that point I decided there is no point in having them work on it anymore since they can't diagnose it anyway. So I have a copy of the shop manual and I'll just be diagnosing it the old fashioned way - with critical analysis.

I love the car but I fucking hate dealing with Ford.

 

[Heima]

Get yourself Forscan and and an OBD/ELM327 dongle to help you with your endeavor.
Knowing the codes as you start out will help immensely.

 

[electrons]

Heima, yes I think Forscan will work, and other brands of apps might not.

Anti_Climax, being near Phoenix with little A/C can't be good. Hard to diagnose of course, but this is the interweb, so I'll give it a shot: Sounds like an obstruction in the refrigerant lines is reducing cooling ability. Or a bad feedback sensor (pressure, temperature). Both might cause cycling.
I was told last year that my A/C compressor was causing an intermittent short-to-ground from the HV battery. A dealership told me that. I chose to not spend a bunch of $$ replacing the compressor unit, ignored the issue, and the dashboard warning never came back. These things can be mysterious.

"Giving up the fight" as I & some others have done, reminds me of so many folks who have told me "Never own a complicated German car past the warranty period." Seems that advice applies to about any vehicle make these days, or one can take the risk of repairs themselves. Owning vehicles is a crap-shoot.
Another old rule is to sell your car either at the 3-year point, or the 12-year point only, to minimize the risk of not getting your money's worth.

 

[TDS-03]

If you come back with a coolant leak in your battery pack, I just posted a guide to help walk you through on how to fix it http://www.myfocuselectric.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=4982
You're now the third person in the past month who I have seen had this problem. I had it in September, but got it fixed by myself and help from other FFE owners.

Long time no post, but finally going down this path using your guide. I have the pack ready to pull and should have it out in the next couple of days. Too much other life stuff going on...(backyard landscaping, sale of my 2003 Cobra, and the purchase of a 68 Mustang as the next basket case project). No proof until I get the case opened up if its truly a leaker or not, but I am curious to find out. In the event this fails to get it going again, I dont know what else to do but maybe part it out and junk the shell. Its stupid and disappointing, but Ford clearly just wants these cars to go away and be forgotten.

 

[TDS-03]

Also FYI in other findings, when disconnecting all the items for the upper pack, I found a interesting item. There is a connector for the 12V system into the pack. The nuts on the connection block were very loose (maybe hand tight) and on the positive lead there was clear evidence of arching and corrosion. No clue if this has been that way since the beginning or if that was left loose by one of the dealerships failed attempts at repair. They claimed to have replaced the harness, so hard to say. Either way, might be a good thing to check on for everyone, not sure what kind of faults an iffy connection there might produce.

 

[TDS-03]

Pulled pack opened case... Guess what? Coolant! Ford is at a new low in my mind. I would never purchase a Mach E or a lightning at this point. They don't know what they are doing and don't care if a vehicle lasts past 8 years.

 

[Heima]

If it is not too much trouble, can you post pictures of the pack interior and the leaked coolant, and what appears to be the suspect origin of the leak?
Thank you very much!

 

[TDS-03]

If it is not too much trouble, can you post pictures of the pack interior and the leaked coolant, and what appears to be the suspect origin of the leak?
Thank you very much!

I havent pulled the pack apart yet, have only taken off the front cover, but its clearly leaking. Exactly where I dont know yet. First image shows the most obvious coolant. Curious how much I will find in the bottom.