Refurbished Upper HV Battery, HELP with Start-up After Install

[slhutzley]

I had my Upper HV battery pack refurbished. Coolant leaked into the pack. All faulty modules were replaced, the coolant system was removed, and I bypassed the coolant loop through the upper pack. This procedure has been done a few times, and is well documented by skyguy.

However, after hooking the battery back up, I am still experiencing issues I need help with.

1. I still have the "Stop Safely Now" message when I "start" the vehicle. It will not give me the Green Drive light.
2. When I plug the charger in (level 1 or level 2), it recognizes the charger, the blue light rotates in a circle, but then it proceeds to only light 1/4 of the light circle, and it doesn't charge.

The 12V battery is brand new.

Any ideas? I have an OBD scanner coming. When I hooked up my Forscan OBD to USB scanner, it recognized the car as a 2002 model Ford and was reading a bunch of codes that didn't make sense (fuel related), so hopefully a newer scanner will help?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

If I can't figure this out, would anyone be interested in buying the car for parts? Or the battery packs, which should be in good working order?

 

[davideos]

You will need to get the scanner working to see exactly what is wrong. A common thing that I've seen happen to others as well as myself are the interlock circuits don't get connected well. On the upper battery pack, you have the service disconnect as well as that cover that covers the high voltage terminals. There is an interlock plug on that and it needs to be engaged. On the lower battery, there is a service disconnect at the passenger rear wheel, and a high voltage plug at the driver's side rear wheel and another high voltage connection at the center of the lower pack. All these have interlocks on them, but you won't really know if there is an issue unless you can see the code.

Anyway, hopefully you get the Forscan working and you can figure it out shortly.

 

[Anti_Climax]

Isn't there a process to disable the HVIL check for a single startup?

 

[slhutzley]

You will need to get the scanner working to see exactly what is wrong. A common thing that I've seen happen to others as well as myself are the interlock circuits don't get connected well. On the upper battery pack, you have the service disconnect as well as that cover that covers the high voltage terminals. There is an interlock plug on that and it needs to be engaged. On the lower battery, there is a service disconnect at the passenger rear wheel, and a high voltage plug at the driver's side rear wheel and another high voltage connection at the center of the lower pack. All these have interlocks on them, but you won't really know if there is an issue unless you can see the code.

Anyway, hopefully you get the Forscan working and you can figure it out shortly.

Thanks for the response. I have an OBD reader on the way so hopefully I can get the codes read soon.
I had to reinstall the disconnect packs to remove and reinstall the battery. I assume that’s what you’re talking about - the little orange cubes with the triple locking latch on the front of the upper battery and behind the passenger rear tire. Both seemed to seat well when I reinstalled them. I checked the one in the cab again because it was still easily accessible. No seating issues that I can see.
There is a black plug with a single 8mm bolt through the center that does not seem to have good connection. It wiggles and two of the many metal small prongs are missing. I can’t figure out how to get it to seat more securely but it seems like it should have connection still. Any experience with that plug? It’s the top right wire harness when you’re facing the upper pack from the rear seat. What role does that harness play?

 

[slhutzley]

Isn't there a process to disable the HVIL check for a single startup?

I’d be interested to know more about this if anyone has experience with it. Thanks

 

[Anti_Climax]

I’d be interested to know more about this if anyone has experience with it. Thanks

I've dug up this post mentioning where it can be jumpered for the PCM loop. https://www.myfocuselectric.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=33687#p33687

Unfortunately I've gone through so many different service pages in the past, it's difficult to trace knowledge back. The manual seems to indicate there are at least 3 HVILs in the vehicle. One monitor by the PCM (heater, DC/DC, etc), one between the SOBDM and the battery and another between the BECM and the battery. Those might be shared but HVIL is actively monitored by each of those modules.

That said, what I'm remembering was an input sequence that tells it to ignore HVIL for the current start or a diagnostic command that could be sent to do the same. I'll keep spelunking in the manuals to see what else I can turn up.

If you do pull the codes, it should tell you which module is seeing the HVIL fault and may narrow it down to 1 or 2 plugs.

Edit: The plug you seem to be describing is C4805E - 40 pins. If so there are a lot of signals there and any one of them could trigger a fault.

 

[Diaz300zx]

I would like to buy it...were are you located

 

[slhutzley]

The new OBD scanner came in and it also does not recognize the vehicle. So I suspect something else is going on.

The 12V battery is also depleting very quickly. It needs constant charging.

So symptoms and info list continues to grow:
- stop safely now message
- vehicle will not charge
- upper HV battery refurbished due to coolant leak. Coolant system bypassed.
- the plug mentioned above has 2 of the 40 or so prongs broke off in the female part located on the upper HV battery.
- OBD does not recognize the vehicle
- 12v battery draining very quickly
- I checked the connections mentioned as best I could. I don’t see anything wrong.

 

[Anti_Climax]

The new OBD scanner came in and it also does not recognize the vehicle. So I suspect something else is going on.

The 12V battery is also depleting very quickly. It needs constant charging.

So symptoms and info list continues to grow:
- stop safely now message
- vehicle will not charge
- upper HV battery refurbished due to coolant leak. Coolant system bypassed.
- the plug mentioned above has 2 of the 40 or so prongs broke off in the female part located on the upper HV battery.
- OBD does not recognize the vehicle
- 12v battery draining very quickly
- I checked the connections mentioned as best I could. I don’t see anything wrong.

What model of scanner did you get? Is it a self contained unit or one that connects to a host device through Wi-Fi/BT/Serial/USB to use with ForScan?

For the 12V, once the "stop now" error has triggered, the HV contactors will not close for charging or use so nothing on the vehicle will be charging the 12V battery. There might also be some other drain making things worse, but it's probably best to leave it on a trickle charge or disconnect the 12V entirely until needed.

I have the pinout of that connector. If you can confirm which pins are broken I can tell you what signals might be compromised.

 

[slhutzley]

First of all, thank you so much for your time and help. It's really appreciated.

I was able to get Forscan to work (user error - it was in "demo mode"). It read several codes.

TCM: U0426:00-08, P1A0A:01-48, P0560:16-08, P060A:02-48, P060A:04-48, P1A0A:29-48
PCM: P0560:16-18, U0111:00-08, P061B:00-08, P0AA0:01-8F, P1A13:00-08

There are many others with the other modules, but I believe these are the most important.

 

[slhutzley]

https://ibb.co/k2M37Qd
https://ibb.co/Ht5QMkB
https://ibb.co/KFPsjgv
https://ibb.co/3kMPkqy
https://ibb.co/w6kwvSL

 

[Anti_Climax]

TCM:
U0426:00-08 "invalid data received from vehicle immobilizer control module"
P1A0A:01-48 "Immediate shut down signal A: General electrical failure"
P0560:16-08 "System voltage: circuit voltage below threshold"
P060A:02-48 "Internal Control Module monitoring processor performance: general signal failure"
P060A:04-48 "Internal Control Module monitoring processor performance: system internal failure"
P1A0A:29-48 "Immediate shutdown signal A: Signal invalid"
PCM:
P0560:16-18 "system voltage low"
U0111:00-08 "Lost communication with battery energy control module A"
P061B:00-08 "Internal Control Module Torque Calculation performance"
P0AA0:01-8F "Hybrid/EV battery positive contractor circuit"
P1A13:00-08 - not listed

If that's just a subset of the errors, I'm going to go out on a limb and guess your canbus is shorted somewhere.

Can you list all the modules that are throwing codes?

Edit: the good news is that those don't appear to be broken pins, they are simply not populated. I can't be sure of the orientation (top, bottom, mirrored) but at least one matches up with those being unused and there's no indication they were there before.

 

[slhutzley]

These all have at least one code:
BECM
TCM
PCM
APIM
GFM
SASM
ABS
RCM
BDYCM
IPMB
FCIM
DDM
HVAC
RFA
ACM
IPC
GPSM

The following have no codes: OCS, DCDC, PAM, PSCM, GWM, PDM, SOBDM, ACCM

The links in the post above have pictures that show all of the codes. I didn't see a way to export them from Forscan.

 

[Anti_Climax]

So this is the CANBus layout (only slightly different for newer ones with DC charging). There are 4 busses exposed to the outside: EV HS-CAN, HS-CAN, MS-CAN and I-CAN. I believe there is another inside the battery itself. All the arrows that don't have a little resistor icon are unterminated connections to modules and the diagnostic socket. That gateway module passes traffic between busses and then each bus terminates at some other module. The BCM (same as BdyCM) also acts as a gateway to bridge traffic across busses.

If there is a short on one of those busses, you may see faults from modules that connect to it or no messages from them at all. You might also get codes from other modules if they are not getting data they expect, so you can see faults from modules on other busses as well.

EV HS-CAN Errors: BECM, PCM, GFM, ABS, TCM
No Errors: SOBDM, ACCM, DCDC, GWM

HS-CAN Errors: BCM, SASM, RCM
No Errors: OCS, PSCM, PAM, GWM

MS-CAN Errors: BCM, IPMB, RFA, IPC, DDM, HVAC, GPSM, APIM
No Errors: PDM, GWM

I-CAN Errors: IPC, FCIM, ACM, APIM
No Errors: GWM
Missing: TCU

Unfortunately, the selection of faults doesn't seem to narrow anything down. You might consider clearing all the faults and doing individual module diagnostics. Track down the service manual that has been linked in other threads and look up the codes. Strike out any module fault codes that don't clearly indicate a problem in the module itself like "low input voltage". Hopefully that narrows things down further.

 

[skyguy_6153]

For the BECM DTC "U3000:46" that you're getting in one of your pics, have you already did a self test on the BECM yet with Forscan after rebuilding the battery pack? If not, clear the current DTCs, and then run the self test on the BECM. (see second pic for more info from FFE workshop manual)

 

[slhutzley]

For the BECM DTC "U3000:46" that you're getting in one of your pics, have you already did a self test on the BECM yet with Forscan after rebuilding the battery pack? If not, clear the current DTCs, and then run the self test on the BECM. (see second pic for more info from FFE workshop manual)

No I have not. I only did the removal and reinstalling of the pack. I shipped the battery to EnerZ in California to rebuild the pack and remove the coolant paths. I was told it should be plug and play from there.

 

[Anti_Climax]

A lot of codes will persist even if they get addressed, so you should clear them all and rescan any time you're checking. Just make sure to note down what's there first, in case something is intermittent and doesn't readily re-trigger.

 

[slhutzley]

For the U3000:46 Code, the Action is:
"CLEAR all BECM Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs). REPEAT the BECM self-test. If DTC U3000:46 returns, INSTALL a new upper and lower high voltage battery."

I am going to do the BECM self-test tonight. I am reading this correctly, that if the code persists after the self-test the upper battery is still bad and needs to be replaced?

 

[Anti_Climax]

Keep in mind that the troubleshooting they have there is specifically for Ford service techs. They don't crack open batteries to repair so if it's something internal, their only "fix" is replacing it.

If it persists your options are replacement or deeper analysis that Ford won't help with.

 

[slhutzley]

Update: Yesterday I cleared the DTC, ran the BECM self test, and ran the BECM check voltage tests.

All of the cell voltages came back in the normal range, and a lot of the codes went away. In fact, after running the test, instead of getting the generic "Stop Safely Now" message, I now am getting "Battery Depleted. Stop Safely Now."

So I plugged in my level 2 charger to see if it would take a charge. According the charger, it was charging at normal rate. However, according to the car, it sensed that it was plugged in (yellow charge light on the dash), but when the charger was plugged in, the blue rings circled twice, then when dark (no pulsing to indicate charging). I decided to leave it overnight to see what happened - maybe it was too depleted to show the first charge ring. But this morning, still no charge ring. I had to go to work, so no further testing.

Here are the codes it read last night:
PCM U0111:00
PCM P0AA0:01
GFM U0111:00
TCU U3003:16
IPC U0412:82

I plan on researching these in the service manual at work today to see if any more clues can be found. Any help is appreciated.