150 mile range

[WattsUp]

I have not received any recall notices in the mail or in my inbox at this point.

When did you take delivery of your FFE? Do you know when it was built? What model year is it?

If your FFE was built recently, it may already have all the updates, and so that's why no recalls were sent. In any case, you can always check if your FFE has any recalls pending by logging into http://www.fordowner.com.

 

[pjam3]

The little Regen circle does spin sometimes and tells me 99 percent or 100 percent or 80 percent and so on. One time going down another hill, I got something like +100 miles, but I had to come back up and it went to 0. As far as my driving style, I'm about 3/4 over near Zen according to the myFord.

No, that "big" spinner with the percent display sounds like the Brake Coach. It appears on the left-hand dash temporarily every time you come to a stop, correct? That's the Brake Coach.

Do you see the little spinner that appears over the battery gauge (the battery also "glows" a little) whenever you are braking or driving without accelerating (e.g., "coasting")? That indicates when regen is actually occurring.

I've seen that as well.

 

[pjam3]

I have not received any recall notices in the mail or in my inbox at this point.

When did you take delivery of your FFE? Do you know when it was built? What model year is it?

If your FFE was built recently, it may already have all the updates, and so that's why no recalls were sent. In any case, you can always check if your FFE has any recalls pending by logging into http://www.fordowner.com.

It's a 2014 FFE and I bought it the day after black friday 2013. So I've had it a little over a month. When I purchased it, it had like 10 miles on it. It now has like 350. I don't drive all that far, but then again, getting only 60 miles or less I can't really drive that far anyway.

 

[Astrand1]

Yeah I gotta think something must be wrong. If the OP is getting no regen and is using that high WH/mile I think it might need a trip back to the dealer. The OP also stated he does not notice a difference when he shifts to L there has to be a problem. If I go from D to L coasting or take my foot off the go pedal the car really starts to slow down. It's very noticeable. About the only time I don't feel regen or see the spinning wheel over the battery icon is when I leave the house cause it's full.

 

[pjam3]

My biggest fear is that the dealer has no clue about anything EV. I was searching for an EV and many of the ford dealers weren't carrying any or they only had a couple. So I found this dealership, called them, made an appointment, and then when I got there nobody really knew anything about it. Hell, they didn't even know they were selling them. We had to go search for the car. And they only had 2 Ford EVs.


I was set on buying the EV and nothing else at that point. I test drove the Energi before, I test drove the C-Max, test drove other cars like the Leaf and Volt and Tesla Model S. Loved the Model S, but just couldn't come to terms with a $1200+ per month car payment. I mean I live in a $350K condo and my car would have been less than 1/3 of what that cost. Anyway, they kept trying to sell me the Energi plug-in. And this wasn't the first time a dealer tried to do that. My local dealer tried to do that a few months prior when I first started looking for a new car. They didn't have any Ford EVs.

And to make matters even more funny but a bit scary is the fact they sent me a merry xmas card with a gift card inside. A gift card good for a Free Oil Change. I called them and said I understand this is more marketing and gets put into your automated system, but with all the spying and analytics going on these days, you should have realized I bought an electric car and don't use oil. I told my brother this and he said I should have taken the car in and asked for my free oil change. My response at this point is I'd be afraid they'd really try to put oil in the car. It's not like they are incompetent, but from my feeling, they really have no clue about EVs and don't seem to care to want to know.

This is another big fear, in that who really knows what's wrong with these cars of if there is a problem, how to fix them.
I mean for years there have been plenty of european cars (bmw, mercedes) where if you took it to the wrong mechanic, they pretty much would screw you over. Obviously the FFE won't have the same issues as a gas car and there are some hybrids that might have needed fixing, but it's still mechanical and has moving parts and it's a new concept so there might be issues. When I showed them the print out about the free home charger, they had no clue what the hell that was all about.

I honestly feel I'd take it back and they would twiddle their thumbs having no clue what I was talking about. Hell, they didn't know a damn thing about the car when I was asking about a super charger coming in the future. Don't get me wrong they were good people, friendly people, got me a good deal and it was a load to handle as I had two young boys with me at that time, but at the end of the day, they really didn't seem to give a damn whether or not they sold that EV. They were happy, but it was the first time in my life I bought a car, saved a lot of money, and the sales person, manager, etc just never seemed to fight over anything or care to keep me there all day and night. If I would have walked out of the dealership without buying it, I really don't think they'd care.

Whereas for a car like the Ford Energi plug-in, the local dealer still calls me and emails me about new deals six months later. This is why I don't think Ford has much interest in the FFE besides compliance reasons. A lot of the dealers don't even carry the car and many don't know anything about it. But ask them about the Energi or C-max and they'll try to get you to sign on the dotted line.

Which brings me back to another point in mass appeal, if you fear the dealer doesn't care about the car and feel they might not even know if there is anything wrong with it unless they 'call detroit' so to speak, it's not a good feeling.

That's why I feel Tesla is lightyears ahead of these old school auto companies. I actually put a deposit down for a Tesla and planned to buy a model S. It was only 2500 bucks and i changed my mind, but still, Tesla makes me feel like they give a damn. When they had those fire issues, they were still sending me emails and explanations. And I didn't even buy the car. I know a guy who needed to get something fixed in his Model S, and they gave him another Model S for two weeks while they fixed his car. No charge, no hassle, it was fixed and end of story.
I don't feel like Ford cares that much about their EV.

 

[michael]

Hey pjam...

If by any chance you're in the Los Angeles area, let me know. We can get together if you like, compare what you're seeing to what a normally functioning FFE is doing. I think WattsUp is somewhere around here too. Sounds to me like something is incorrect and can be identified.

If you're elsewhere, maybe one of the other members here could do likewise.

 

[pjam3]

Hey pjam...

If by any chance you're in the Los Angeles area, let me know. We can get together if you like, compare what you're seeing to what a normally functioning FFE is doing. I think WattsUp is somewhere around here too. Sounds to me like something is incorrect and can be identified.

If you're elsewhere, maybe one of the other members here could do likewise.

If I had a Tesla model S, I'd drive down, but in my FFE, san diego to Los angeles just isn't' happening. If I was getting 100 Miles and a guranteed 100 miles all the time, i would attempt it, but at around 60-65 miles, I'd need to find various charging stations just to make it and honestly, I'd have to mostly use the Freeways to get down there. To avoid the Camp Pendleton area and use mostly backroads and remain around 35-40 MPH, it would never work. I'd wind up going out past Temecula over to Lake Elsinore and back to LA. And it would require a lot of incline and hill like driving.

 

[dmen]

Pjam, it sounds like your car is displaying the regen circle and telling you that you recaptured some percentage at a stop, right? But people think maybe you aren't actually getting any regen?
I can think of two other ways to get an idea of whether it's actually regenerating.
One, as you are coasting to slow down without pressure on brake pedal, shift from D to L. Or coast in N, then shift to D. Do you feel the car's deceleration increase? You have to be at less than 100% SOC of course but it sounds like you're never at 100% so that's easy.
Two, queue up the enhanced trip display on your dash and get to the top of your hill. If that long downhill is pretty long, the displayed kWh will eventually go down by 0.1 kWh or more as you coast down the hill, if it is truly regenerating. It won't show a negative number so make sure not to reset it at the top of the hill.

Anyway, if it isn't a lack of regen, there's still got to be something wrong with the car for your numbers to be so bad. I only get that efficiency when I'm driving with heat on, outside temps in the 20s-30s. I've tried driving it aggressively (hard accel, hard stops, city roads) in nice weather to see how bad the efficiency would be, and got like 325. We don't have hills, but San Diego's not that hilly.
I hear you on the skepticism of your local dealer. Those of us who experienced the stop safely now bug saw how clueless the dealer's service can be, even though they are supposed to have EV-knowledgeable techs to be EV-certified. But they knew what they didn't know, and correctly sought guidance from Detroit, so I would assume yours would too. Plus CA has sold the majority of the ~2000 FFEs in service, so there might be a dealer fairly close who's worked on one or two, or at least on an Energi.

 

[pjam3]

I did a test yesterday as it was the first time I had any time to without the kids and didn't care about time limits. I drove from where I live out to a Frys Electronics store. It's about a 20+ mile drive one way. It's a quick trip on freeways, but I was going to use all the backroads I could find and I used the Myford navigator set to the most economic route possible. It seemed to match up with what I found on the map and so off I went.

I didn't do much in the D to L or N, but i did try to glide down hills as much as I could without ever touching the brake or acceleration pedal.
I left my house with like 45 mile range on the car and halfway through the trip I was at like 40. Had around +10 miles most of the way. But I was going like 30 MPH most of the way and tried to glide down as far as I could without people beeping behind me. There were a few hills where I had to go up and lost some of the miles and in the end I wound up getting to Frys with like 34 miles left. But starting with 45 and ending with like 34 and going over 20 miles was a plus for me.

I figured on the way home I could make it all the way back to a Whole Foods or some other station to charge. I went a little different route, but similar, and I glided down as far as I could. There are a lot of windy hilly roads from places like Del Mar out to San marcos and so on. Especially taking all the back roads through rancho santa fe and so on. Anyway, I did have like +20 miles at one point and wound up getting to whole foods with like 30 miles left. So about a 40 mile round trip wound up only using 15 miles.

But it was all 30-35MPH, back roads, and try to glide down as many hills as I could to get more regen. And what is normally a 20-25 minute trip on freeways(one way) turned into one of those, I left at 1pm and didn't get home till like 7pm kind of trips.

I spent about 2 hours at the plaza, eating, reading, opening up a new device i bought , etc and waiting to charge up the car. It didn't fully charge but the capacity was over 80 miles. Best I've ever seen. And I got up to like 60+ miles. I was happy. And then the 1.8 mile trip from the plaza to my condo, still using back roads, killed my spirit. I got home with like 45 miles left. Its not even a 2 mile trip and it burned about 15 miles. I remember watching it go from +15 down to 0 and all the way to -25. It finally ended after some time, but it was kind of depressing to get over +20 at one point and then wind up losing it all anyway.

I had to go out later to pick up the kids and they are about 12 miles away to the ex's and by the time I got near there, i was down to like 15 miles. I did use a freeway to get there though. But there is a charging station down the street that works now and I stopped off over there and walked to the house to get some extra miles.

My Kw hours improved until I got near my condo. That's where it just killed all the gains.

 

[pjam3]

The one thing that is annoying is the MyFord App on my phone. It was cool when I would walk around the mall and it would update me and show me car is 40 percent at 30 miles or something. It meant I had to walk around some more. But now i don't know what the issue is.
Yesterday I parked at the charging station with like 30 miles or so, started charging, then checked the app. I waited for it to update and was surprised to see it said like 16 miles. So it was bit confusing that the car said 30 and the app said 16. A bit concerning considering i wasn't sure if the car was off or the app.

It still hasn't really matched the cars numbers today either. So now the wonder is should I believe what the car is telling me or what the MyFord app is saying. A few miles here and there, annoying but no biggie, but 15+ miles on a car that's been getting me 60-65 is not a good thing. I assume it's the myford app that's off and so i deleted it off my phone, re-installed it, logged in and so on. Same issue. But I hope the myapp is the one that's off and not the car. Then I'd be out 15 miles or so and be kind of screwed.

 

[jmueller065]

Your experiment is why we've come to call the range to empty meter the "guess-o-meter"! It seems to vary greatly simply based on the last few minutes of driving (I know someone who took their FFE in a car parade. They drove it for about 15 miles at 4-6 mph. By the end of the parade the GOM was reading like 200+ miles).
http://jamiegeek.myevblog.com/2013/10/12/the-guess-o-meter/

You'll find that using the % charge indicator works out a bit better (the background green highlight of the battery and there is an actual value on the MFT display).

You'd think that they could make that much more accurate. I've never seen the distance to empty value jump around like that on any of the gas powered Ford's I've owned--just borrow some code from the ICE's.

For me the range indicated on the app has always matched the car but that is the only value in he app that has been accurate. All the "extra" features have been way off:
http://jamiegeek.myevblog.com/2013/09/09/going-mobile/

 

[WattsUp]

Yesterday I parked at the charging station with like 30 miles or so, started charging, then checked the app. I waited for it to update and was surprised to see it said like 16 miles. So it was bit confusing that the car said 30 and the app said 16.

Sometimes the app is just showing old data... including even the fact that the car is charging. The charging animation will be going on the main page, but that might just reflect some "old knowledge" that the car was charging in the past.

It is very common for the app to fail to update for a period of time (which I think is a server issue rather than an app issue), but it will eventually start working again. I can be very annoying that it stops working (for hours sometimes) right when you needed it to work (like for monitoring an important charge session).

Anyway, I assume you tried pressing the Update button? Did the app seem to update or did it show an error message? I find when the all updates without an error message, the information is then accurate.

 

[WattsUp]

We can get together if you like, compare what you're seeing to what a normally functioning FFE is doing. I think WattsUp is somewhere around here too.

I'm actually up in the SF Bay Area. Would take me quite a few charges to get down to LA.

 

[pjam3]

It's been a couple of days now and updating, reinstalling, rebooting the phone and so on hasn't changed anything.
I charged my car today and it said 81 Mile range and fully charged. Well as full as it'll let me. My app was saying like 66 miles.
My 2 mile commute home ran it down to 70 miles on the Car. My phone App says 56 miles at 88 percent charged. So at this point it's not syncing up at all or one of the gauges is way off.

I know last week the car had a 'software update' or something as my center console wouldn't turn on at all and my son was like, "what happened?" as I couldn't turn on the sirius radio. Then it popped up updating software and so on and it took a few minutes, but it was finally up and running again in no time. But ever since then my Phone app and the gauge on the car are just not in sync.

 

[WattsUp]

I know last week the car had a 'software update' or something as my center console wouldn't turn on at all and my son was like, "what happened?" as I couldn't turn on the sirius radio. Then it popped up updating software and so on and it took a few minutes, but it was finally up and running again in no time. But ever since then my Phone app and the gauge on the car are just not in sync.

No, not an update. Software updates happen only at your dealer or via a USB stick.

What happened was MFT rebooted by itself. It does that from time to time. The "system maintenance" screen is just Microsoft-speak for "oops, we crashed", or perhaps some other reason (maybe even, "just because"). You will see the exact same screen if you temporarily remove and insert the MFT fuse (toggling power) and cause MFT to restart.

That whole "oops, we crashed" scenario happened to me while driving once... proceeded by 5 minutes of the navigation view getting really slow and then freezing, and no steering wheel or console buttons responding. But, MFT eventually restarted (showing the cras-- er, I mean, "maintenance" screen) and then all was fine. It also forgot where I was navigating to... of course.

 

[WattsUp]

It's been a couple of days now and updating, reinstalling, rebooting the phone and so on hasn't changed anything.
I charged my car today and it said 81 Mile range and fully charged. Well as full as it'll let me. My app was saying like 66 miles.
My 2 mile commute home ran it down to 70 miles on the Car. My phone App says 56 miles at 88 percent charged. So at this point it's not syncing up at all or one of the gauges is way off.

Really weird. It's like the car and the app are operating on two different scales. It sounds like the same general "changes" are being reported (SOC does up, SOC does down) but the numbers are all wrong. I've never experienced anything like that.

Does the website show the same numbers as the app, or the car?

 

[jmueller065]

Yeah the "Performing Scheduled System Maintenance" progress bar is just Windows rebooting--yes really there is a version of windows running in MFT (once you have that epiphany then it all makes sense! LOL)

I once got an actual windows exception popup--it looked exactly like it would on Windows XP. Forgot to take a picture of it though.

 

[davideos]

If you switch keys, sometimes you will see different readings. The values that you see on display in the car for milage estimates are dependent on the key you are using. I'm not sure which is used online; however, I think there is a way to set it. Just an idea.

 

[jmueller065]

If you switch keys, sometimes you will see different readings. The values that you see on display in the car for milage estimates are dependent on the key you are using. I'm not sure which is used online; however, I think there is a way to set it. Just an idea.

And you can really mess with the car by driving it around with BOTH keys in your pocket!

 

[WattsUp]

That's kind of how it's been. When I bought the car, the dealership was like 30+ miles from my house and mostly freeway. I left the dealership with like 50 or something, got home with like 10 or 11 miles. At that point I've tried to avoid freeways.

Some days are annoying as I'll leave with 40 miles, stop off at a mall, charge it for like an hour and a half and it'll be over 50 miles, but then get home and I'm back at like 40 miles. So some days it's just not worth it at all to spend that much time charging and return home with the same amount I left with.

pjam, you're not a "two-footed" driver are you? -- driving along pressing both the brake and accelerator pedals?

Just checking.

That would surely be self-defeating in the FFE, and might really lower your efficiency, and mess up your Wh/mi. If you are pressing both pedals, you're going to have to change that habit to get the most out of your FFE.