campfamily
Well-known member
Went to the LA Auto Show on Friday, didn't see a FFE on display in the Ford area. Couple of Fusion Energi and C-Max, but no Focus. Was hoping for more information on Ford's plans for Electric cars, but no luck.....
and any other low range EV (i3, Kia Soul, eGolf, etc.). About the only thing it won't kill is the Leaf & Teslas.Michael said:it will kill the FFE
jmueller065 said:and any other low range EV (i3, Kia Soul, eGolf, etc.). About the only thing it won't kill is the Leaf & Teslas.Michael said:it will kill the FFE
Leo said:not sure it will kill the FFE. depends on the cost for most people. As for ford not wanting to seel them i think the dealers dont want to sell them even more. I don't think they make much on the sale then even less on the maintenance of the car then when it does need something it will most likely be to expensive and not worth fixing.
They don't want to stay in the BEV game. The problem is that they are forced to and must stay in the BEV game (CARB rules are only going to get more stringent).michael said:I see no indication that Ford plans to stay in the BEV game. I really wish they would produce....
Wow! I would have taken note of the name of that Ford rep to complain about them to Ford Corporate. I think we all know that Ford Corporate doesn't want to sell the car, but in spite of that I'd want to complain about a Ford employee bad-mouthing their own car. Was this person a Ford employee or an employee of a local dealer?Silverrabbit1954 said:Ford rep was down talking the car to a person who was asking questions about the car. The gentleman did not know Ford had a pure electric. The rep had only negative comments about the car. The gentleman and myself had a conversation about the merits of the car as a commuter. Rep kept talking about limited range - look at C-Max Energi instead.
I think you're right on target with your assessment.jmueller065 said:They don't want to stay in the BEV game. The problem is that they are forced to and must stay in the BEV game (CARB rules are only going to get more stringent).michael said:I see no indication that Ford plans to stay in the BEV game. I really wish they would produce....
Much like the FFE I bet Ford will drag its feet and finally produce something after everyone else has their 200+ mile BEV out and then ignore it. From what I can tell the FFE was Alan Mulally and Bill Ford's baby. Now that Mark Fields (mr performance) is in charge a BEV is a (non-)stinker.
The i3 is supposed to get a range increase soon. Leaf will too. I'm not sure they'll match the Bolt, but it will hopefully keep them competitive. Your joke about VW is awesome! :lol: I find your Tesla comment intriguing. I think that the Model 3 should cost more than a comparable Bolt, if it includes Supercharging. That is worth a lot because it makes the car capable of road trips & capable of being someone's only vehicle. A Bolt with a 200 mile range cannot be driven across the country as easily as a Tesla using the Supercharger network. Thus, it's still limited to being a city car, it just now can operate within a larger city area. A 200 mile EV wouldn't be worth that much more to us than a 80 mile EV. The amount of trips that we could make without using gas in our Fusion Energi would only marginally increase. We'd save maybe 20 gallons of gas per year with a 200 mile EV versus an 80 mile EV. With a Supercharger enabled Tesla we could possibly go 100% gas free. The Supercharger network is almost built out enough across the northern US to make that possible.michael said:Yes, I agree that the Bolt will obsolete all the 80 mile class BEVs, but...
...i3 will survive because the BMW fanboys will love anything they make, plus the range extender option helps...
...The next gen Leaf may or may not have range to match the Bolt, it's hard to say
...VW may lie and say the eGolf has 200 mile range
...I think Tesla may be in a jam. I think the Model 3 will be far more expensive than Tesla is suggesting
I'm really eager to see what the Bolt turns out to be, and what it will cost.
Ford has stated that they could make a BEV with the same range as a Model S, if they so desired. This indicates that they don't want to & that they won't. I find this very disappointing.michael said:I see no indication that Ford plans to stay in the BEV game.
That's an intriguing idea. If the new Volt had the same range as the current Leaf/Focus/et al & have the ICE back up it would really be a compelling car. Especially if GM could do it without raising its price. I wonder if the gen 3 Volt will have something like that setup, particularly as Bolt production helps lower battery costs.michael said:If Chevy can do it, sure Ford can as well. Chevy blew it on the new Volt by providing only 50 miles AER. All they needed to do was provide 20 kWh/80 miles of AER and they would have killed everyone including Tesla.
Very well said. This is why I find a 200-mile BEV only minimally more attractive than the FFE. The new Leaf with the 107 miles of range is more attractive than a 200-mile BEV that costs more. This is why I hope to be able to afford a CPO Model S by next summer when our FFE lease ends.cpwl said:The proposed Bolt and any other non-Tesla 200 mile range BEVs are a bit of a quandary until there is sufficient DCQC infrastructure to effectively support long range (greater than 120 mile one-way) intercity travel. In comparison to the 80 mile range BEVs the increased range of the Bolt and Gen 2 Leaf can only:
a. give many people a “warm fuzzy” about being able to do their daily commute and additional daily shopping/visiting or entertainment travels,
b. enhance their ability to undertake short notice around town trips after a regular day’s commute or conducted several weekend trips (shopping rounds followed by entertainment or visiting trips the same day) without a requirement to “top off” the battery,
c. enable better range in adverse weather conditions, notably the cold winters experienced in much of the US and almost all of Canada giving a reliable winter range of perhaps 100 miles, and
d. allow a restricted amount of inter-city travel of approximately 120-135 miles between cities. (Any inter-city travel also has a significant component of inner city travel as one departs home and then arrives at the destination consuming on average probably 35 miles, give or take)
a. give many people a “warm fuzzy” about being able to do their daily commute and additional daily shopping/visiting or entertainment travels,
That used to be my attitude as well. Hence our fleet of the Focus Electric & Fusion Energi. We're 100% EV around the city, only using gas for longer trips. But, lately my opinion is changing. The pollution from ICE vehicles is just too much. I've been especially impacted the last few months. I got sick with a cold back in October. Since then I have not been able to shake the lingering cough (bronchitis). Through some data collecting & analyzing, I've been able to determine that a large part of my lingering cough is triggered by particulate pollution. The MN Pollution Control Agency says that about 50% of our local particulate matter pollution comes from vehicle exhaust in the Twin Cities area. Our apartment is located in a very high traffic area. Between local freeways & busy city streets, hundreds of thousands of vehicles pass within 1 mile of our home each day. Since I work so close to home, similar numbers hold true for by my office. In contrast, my parents live in a residential area, with about 1/7 the amount of vehicle traffic within a 1 mile radius of their house compared to near our apartment. When I go spend time at my parents' house, my cough pretty much vanishes. On holidays/weekends with far less vehicle traffic near our apartment my cough is less severe. I've also been tracking daily Air Quality Index (AQI) levels & comparing to how much I am coughing. This is a measure of the total particulate matter in the air in the Twin Cities. The days with more pollutant dispersion are days that I cough less, days with wind out of the SE are days that I cough more since pollutants are carried into our region by the wind on those days.michael said:I have never felt that DCQC is that important. I understand I am in a multicar family and I don't need to depend on just one car to do everything. In my case, if I go intercity, I take a Volt...it is far easier to deal with than even a Tesla. The idea of the nationwide network of superchargers is cool, but so is the existence of a zillion gas stations. Add 300 miles in five minutes...how easy is that?
If I were limited to a single car and expected a lot of intercity use, I would choose an ERV. For $30K I get all the flexibility an $80K Tesla provides.
jmueller065 said:You both (cpwl and hybridbear) are speaking as current limited-range EV drivers.
The biggest point there is:
a. give many people a “warm fuzzy” about being able to do their daily commute and additional daily shopping/visiting or entertainment travels,
That "warm fuzzy" will sell a lot of 200 mile EVs as more people will see that they can fit into their daily usage. Not everyone needs to take that 1000 mile road trip, and when they do they, more often than not, fly. Can my 200 mile EV get me to the airport and back? yes? I'm good.
I know of at least one person who will actually fly for a 100 mile trip or so simply because they aren't doing the driving and can use the time in the air working--even though driving would actually be more convenient as the time would be shorter and it would be less expensive (especially now with gas sooo cheap!).
cpwl said:jmueller065 said:You both (cpwl and hybridbear) are speaking as current limited-range EV drivers.
I’ve yet to live in a city where my 80 mile BEV won’t get me to the airport so again the 200 mile BEV doesn’t significantly improve on the utility I currently have in my FFE. This is just one more data point in my assertion that the current 80 mile range BEVs meet over 85% of peoples actual daily intra-city transportation requirements.
Thanks and Cheers
Carl
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