transmission oil
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jmueller065
Well-known member
In the FFE since there really is no transmission there is no need to change the transmission oil.
There isn't even transmission oil in the thing--its only gear oil.
Now if you are talking about a gas Focus you're in the wrong place.
There isn't even transmission oil in the thing--its only gear oil.
Now if you are talking about a gas Focus you're in the wrong place.
triangles
Well-known member
Actually it does have Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF) in the FFE gear box. Specifically it's Ford Mercon LV. If you change the gear oil do not use anything other than Mercon LV. I would suspect there's probably a wide range of lubricants that would work but without having any knowledge of the lubrication requirements I'd just stick with the factory spec. I seem to vaguely remember that it takes 2 or 2.5 quarts. I have no idea where I might have read that though so don't quote me.
As far as I know the transmission is a very important part of the vehicle. I always buy my transmission oil for my Focus from an official dealership. I have also learned about some systems that cool the transmission mechanism which assures a cooler temperature of the oil too. This got my attention and I started reading reviews for transmission coolers. As it turned out it is a real thing. By using one the lifespan of the transmission increases by about thirty to forty percent. I have installed one on my car and am eager to know what the difference will be.
Right, we are talking about an electric car here. As of this moment, I can think of only one electric car that had anything more than a one-speed transmission. A select few Tesla Roadsters.
All other electric cars have a single speed clutchless continuous engagement gearbox. Because there is no torque converter or clutch packs or bands, there are no mechanical friction/slip components, hence nothing really to produce heat per se. Electric vehicle are always "in gear". Even the Neutral setting is "in gear". Reverse is just the motor running backwards. Yes, your electric vehicle is capable of freeway speeds in reverse, but there are electronic limiters.
EXCEPTION: The motor itself is a slip component and that does produce heat. However, coolant is pumped through the motor, so that handles the heat transfer out. Some electric cars, such as the Tesla Model 3 uses transmission fluid to cool the motor, and that fluid is cooled by a heat exchanger with coolant.
Probably any good quality oil with anti-wear additives could be used, not necessarily gear oil or Mercon LV. The temperature range of a electric vehicles gear box is much lower than an ICE, and there really is no need for an ICE type transmission cooler. Even a Tesla Model X with the towing package does not have an ICE type transmission cooler. Its not needed.
Now a person could argue that it would not hurt to have an ICE type cooler, and I agree, it would not hurt, but it sure would be a waste of money.
Ford probably specified Mercon LV for the FFE because it was the latest and greatest, it was of the best specification, and they could make more money off of it. And if it works ok, why bother with yet another lubricant for just 10,000 (?) cars?
An interesting contrast is the lubricant for the Fiat 500e gearbox. $40 gallon. Special European Shell proprietary oil. Special is because it is only available in Europe and it was developed especially for electric vehicle gearboxes. It is repackaged for Chrysler-Fiat. And it is a gearbox oil, not a transmission fluid.
Anybody who has replaced manual transmission fluid/oil will tell you that there is gear wear inside, and that metallic sludge sticking to the magnet could accelerate wear of softer metals if the magnet wasn't there. So it is a good idea to replace the gearbox fluid on ocassion. Because there are no softer metal synchros in the FFE gearbox, you could probably go 50k miles without concern. If you were towing with the vehicle, you might want to go every 20k or 30k. It depends on the quality of the metals, surface treatments, and hardening on the gears and bearings.
All other electric cars have a single speed clutchless continuous engagement gearbox. Because there is no torque converter or clutch packs or bands, there are no mechanical friction/slip components, hence nothing really to produce heat per se. Electric vehicle are always "in gear". Even the Neutral setting is "in gear". Reverse is just the motor running backwards. Yes, your electric vehicle is capable of freeway speeds in reverse, but there are electronic limiters.
EXCEPTION: The motor itself is a slip component and that does produce heat. However, coolant is pumped through the motor, so that handles the heat transfer out. Some electric cars, such as the Tesla Model 3 uses transmission fluid to cool the motor, and that fluid is cooled by a heat exchanger with coolant.
Probably any good quality oil with anti-wear additives could be used, not necessarily gear oil or Mercon LV. The temperature range of a electric vehicles gear box is much lower than an ICE, and there really is no need for an ICE type transmission cooler. Even a Tesla Model X with the towing package does not have an ICE type transmission cooler. Its not needed.
Now a person could argue that it would not hurt to have an ICE type cooler, and I agree, it would not hurt, but it sure would be a waste of money.
Ford probably specified Mercon LV for the FFE because it was the latest and greatest, it was of the best specification, and they could make more money off of it. And if it works ok, why bother with yet another lubricant for just 10,000 (?) cars?
An interesting contrast is the lubricant for the Fiat 500e gearbox. $40 gallon. Special European Shell proprietary oil. Special is because it is only available in Europe and it was developed especially for electric vehicle gearboxes. It is repackaged for Chrysler-Fiat. And it is a gearbox oil, not a transmission fluid.
Anybody who has replaced manual transmission fluid/oil will tell you that there is gear wear inside, and that metallic sludge sticking to the magnet could accelerate wear of softer metals if the magnet wasn't there. So it is a good idea to replace the gearbox fluid on ocassion. Because there are no softer metal synchros in the FFE gearbox, you could probably go 50k miles without concern. If you were towing with the vehicle, you might want to go every 20k or 30k. It depends on the quality of the metals, surface treatments, and hardening on the gears and bearings.
runningboy
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- Aug 26, 2020
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arborius said:
Why didn’t anyone tell me about this some months ago?!
subcool2020
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- Sep 28, 2020
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runningboy said:
Wrong place wrong time. happens to the best of us mate
Mercon LV in our differential & 1-speed gear assembly, yep. LV stands for Low Viscosity, so hydrodynamic drag friction is low.
I changed the Mercon LV in a C-Max after I noticed it was running just a few degrees higher than others were getting (not much hotter), and I was able to put in MORE Mercon LV than what the factory had under-filled it to! It was OK how low it was, still lubricating adequately, but when I followed the drain & fill instructions, it took more than what I drained out. And it ran cooler. It was not over-filled since there was a top level opening to check on it, the same thing most differentials have, top level check & fill plug, and bottom drain plug.
If the same Wayne MI factory where both the C-Max & Ford Focus Electric (FFE) was made also under-filled our FFE, it would run a little too hot I guess. Mine was replaced under a recall a couple of years ago, so I hope the technician refilled it correctly. I've never checked it. Probably should though.
It might be a good idea to change out the fluid at 30,000 miles or so, to get iron particles out, and then never change it ever again.
A magnet in there, if it has one (probably does), should take care of iron particles though, so most folks don't change theirs.
I saw a picture of it. Looks typical, with a low drain plug & higher fill plug. The manual (thanks Heima) says you'll need a suction gun but maybe you could just jack up one side of the vehicle a little and drain most out anyway, no suction gun required.
Safety: Always use multiple jack stands, be careful. Use redundant supports to make sure the 3,800 lb FFE doesn't crush u.
I changed the Mercon LV in a C-Max after I noticed it was running just a few degrees higher than others were getting (not much hotter), and I was able to put in MORE Mercon LV than what the factory had under-filled it to! It was OK how low it was, still lubricating adequately, but when I followed the drain & fill instructions, it took more than what I drained out. And it ran cooler. It was not over-filled since there was a top level opening to check on it, the same thing most differentials have, top level check & fill plug, and bottom drain plug.
If the same Wayne MI factory where both the C-Max & Ford Focus Electric (FFE) was made also under-filled our FFE, it would run a little too hot I guess. Mine was replaced under a recall a couple of years ago, so I hope the technician refilled it correctly. I've never checked it. Probably should though.
It might be a good idea to change out the fluid at 30,000 miles or so, to get iron particles out, and then never change it ever again.
A magnet in there, if it has one (probably does), should take care of iron particles though, so most folks don't change theirs.
I saw a picture of it. Looks typical, with a low drain plug & higher fill plug. The manual (thanks Heima) says you'll need a suction gun but maybe you could just jack up one side of the vehicle a little and drain most out anyway, no suction gun required.
Safety: Always use multiple jack stands, be careful. Use redundant supports to make sure the 3,800 lb FFE doesn't crush u.
