Lease terms on FFE?
- Thread starter jlsoaz
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firewired
Well-known member
In Austin Tx, beginning of March, after calling every EV certified dealer in Texas with $1999 down got $199 month for 10,500 miles a year for 24 months. Ended up being cheaper that way. With $199 and 10,500 it works out to $0.22 a mile, each additional mile above the 10,500 a year is $0.20 with no other penalty (I called afford Ford Financial to verify.).
francishsu
Active member
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Just leased a 2013 FFE + leather in Grand Rapids, MI.. 36mo/36000mi at $295/mo and $1290 due at signing (tax, title/reg, fees, 1st mo)
Details..
Originally they asked for $370/mo. I noted that the Ford web site said I should be able to get it for $310/mo.. granted that doesn't include taxes and some additional fees (those probably would have accounted for an additional $20-30/mo in my estimation). Salesperson said the Ford web site has never provided an accurate calculation for him. Countered that Ford is basically giving false advertising then. Also happened to be going through similar hassle negotiating a Nissan Leaf lease where I qualified for VPP pricing. Eventually got to $340/mo on a loaded Leaf SL (Nissan started at $390/mo based on incorrect VPP pricing) and let the Ford salesperson know that I liked both the Leaf and the FFE, but that the Leaf offer was better. We agreed that the Leaf VPP pricing combined with higher residual % was resulting in numbers in favor of the Leaf and we ended the call (in a polite sorry we couldn't do business sort of way).
The Leaf numbers were still too high for my liking so I was planning for another round of frustrating negotiation with the Nissan dealer. But 10 minutes after I had ended that phone conversation with the Ford salesperson, he calls again and said he was talking about my case with the sales manager. He mumbled something about the manager mentioning battery issues with the Leaf and some other slam on the Leaf, but then proceeded to tell me they could get me below $300/mo without increasing upfront costs by offering X-Plan pricing even though Ford does not offer X-Plan on the FFE. I accepted their offer and drove it home today.
Aside from the initial visit to the dealers to test drive, I pretty much handled all the negotiation over e-mail even though they tried calling me at the same time. The Ford and Nissan web sites were both useful and frustrating. Frustrating because you feel like you should be able to get a reasonable offer from the dealer right away based on what's being advertised/promoted on the corporate web site, yet their initial offer ends up being not even in the ballpark. Useful because you can use the numbers from the web site to argue for a better offer from the dealer. But the key thing was to negotiate the competing EVs (FFE vs. Leaf).
Details..
Originally they asked for $370/mo. I noted that the Ford web site said I should be able to get it for $310/mo.. granted that doesn't include taxes and some additional fees (those probably would have accounted for an additional $20-30/mo in my estimation). Salesperson said the Ford web site has never provided an accurate calculation for him. Countered that Ford is basically giving false advertising then. Also happened to be going through similar hassle negotiating a Nissan Leaf lease where I qualified for VPP pricing. Eventually got to $340/mo on a loaded Leaf SL (Nissan started at $390/mo based on incorrect VPP pricing) and let the Ford salesperson know that I liked both the Leaf and the FFE, but that the Leaf offer was better. We agreed that the Leaf VPP pricing combined with higher residual % was resulting in numbers in favor of the Leaf and we ended the call (in a polite sorry we couldn't do business sort of way).
The Leaf numbers were still too high for my liking so I was planning for another round of frustrating negotiation with the Nissan dealer. But 10 minutes after I had ended that phone conversation with the Ford salesperson, he calls again and said he was talking about my case with the sales manager. He mumbled something about the manager mentioning battery issues with the Leaf and some other slam on the Leaf, but then proceeded to tell me they could get me below $300/mo without increasing upfront costs by offering X-Plan pricing even though Ford does not offer X-Plan on the FFE. I accepted their offer and drove it home today.
Aside from the initial visit to the dealers to test drive, I pretty much handled all the negotiation over e-mail even though they tried calling me at the same time. The Ford and Nissan web sites were both useful and frustrating. Frustrating because you feel like you should be able to get a reasonable offer from the dealer right away based on what's being advertised/promoted on the corporate web site, yet their initial offer ends up being not even in the ballpark. Useful because you can use the numbers from the web site to argue for a better offer from the dealer. But the key thing was to negotiate the competing EVs (FFE vs. Leaf).
v_traveller
Well-known member
Congratulations! Sounds like you earned your deal!
So, price-independent, if you had the exact same deal for both, which would you have picked? Just curious....
So, price-independent, if you had the exact same deal for both, which would you have picked? Just curious....
francishsu
Active member
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- Apr 16, 2013
- Messages
- 26
I would have had to test drive both again to decide. If I didn't have that option, I would have picked the FFE because of the looks and because I felt a bit more comfortable driving it.. except when my wife turned on the climate control/heat and I saw an immediate drop of 8 or so miles in the range estimation.
I think having it drop like that right up front when you're driving it for the first time increases the range anxiety and may turn off prospective buyers. From what I recall on the Leaf test drive, you turn on the heat and I think you can just see that your energy usage has increased but the estimated range will just drop at a higher rate over time.
I think having it drop like that right up front when you're driving it for the first time increases the range anxiety and may turn off prospective buyers. From what I recall on the Leaf test drive, you turn on the heat and I think you can just see that your energy usage has increased but the estimated range will just drop at a higher rate over time.
WattsUp
Well-known member
FWIW, as an owner for 4000 miles so far, the FFE range predictions seem very accurate and, once you get used to how it works, range anxiety is pretty low.francishsu said:
I have no idea how well the Leaf's approach works, but receiving an estimate that then "decreases faster" than you might be expecting would seem to give a false sense of security, and lead to more range anxiety later.
I think the approach in the FFE is to give the best and honest estimate right up front and then the range decreases in actual miles driven (if you stay within budget, which it also has displays to help you do). This works especially well with the navigation system (with a destination set), but works basically the same way without.
francishsu
Active member
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2013
- Messages
- 26
I agree that as you drive it more, you get more comfortable as you understand how/why the range is being adjusted. You may get a false sense of security with the Leaf in comparison, but I think it's something Leaf owners also adapt to.
For a person test driving the car for the first time in a colder climate, who turns on the heater as they would on a gas powered car, the FFE method is not conducive to selling the car. That's all I'm saying. Once you own the car, the accuracy of current usage and predicted range is indeed what matters, and the range anxiety will naturally subside as a result.
For a person test driving the car for the first time in a colder climate, who turns on the heater as they would on a gas powered car, the FFE method is not conducive to selling the car. That's all I'm saying. Once you own the car, the accuracy of current usage and predicted range is indeed what matters, and the range anxiety will naturally subside as a result.
Electrogator
New member
Hey everybody. Just picked up my new 2013 FFE w/ leather and the white platinum paint. I'm in Tampa and found a dealer near Orlando who offered me $327/mo with $0 down for a 36/10.5K lease, which includes all taxes and fees. It was his one and only FFE sale after receiving the car a few months ago. Only vehicle on the lot, which isn't atypical around here.
I had to top it off at the free Buffalo Wild Wings charging station about halfway, but made it home just fine with 1 mile to spare!
Up until the last minute, I was pretty much resigned to getting a Leaf, as I couldn't get any local dealers to honor the FFE advertised lease special. Even a few that have been sitting on their FFEs for 5-6 months! It was frustrating that most of the Ford dealers I spoke with weren't familiar with the car itself, or the lease incentives. It also seems some are delusional and don't realize that the Leaf is their direct competition, with lease deals that actually are honored by local dealers.
However, you only need one dealer to agree to the price you're looking for, and I found one. Love the car!
I had to top it off at the free Buffalo Wild Wings charging station about halfway, but made it home just fine with 1 mile to spare!
Up until the last minute, I was pretty much resigned to getting a Leaf, as I couldn't get any local dealers to honor the FFE advertised lease special. Even a few that have been sitting on their FFEs for 5-6 months! It was frustrating that most of the Ford dealers I spoke with weren't familiar with the car itself, or the lease incentives. It also seems some are delusional and don't realize that the Leaf is their direct competition, with lease deals that actually are honored by local dealers.
However, you only need one dealer to agree to the price you're looking for, and I found one. Love the car!
georgek
Well-known member
francishsu,
"From what I recall on the Leaf test drive, you turn on the heat and I think you can just see that your energy usage has increased but the estimated range will just drop at a higher rate over time."
That's why on the Leaf site, they refer to it as the "guess o meter"
Congratulations on your purchase!!!
"From what I recall on the Leaf test drive, you turn on the heat and I think you can just see that your energy usage has increased but the estimated range will just drop at a higher rate over time."
That's why on the Leaf site, they refer to it as the "guess o meter"
Congratulations on your purchase!!!
In Arizona we don't have extra incentives. The best lease I can find is $485 a month even with $950 down.
My 2013 LEAF was only $301 a month with zero down and a 2 year lease.
PS the way Electric are improving and dropping prices I would only LEASE. If you buy you will miss out on all the big improvements and lower costs each year or 2. I think the biggest improvement will be having ultra capacitors in parallel with each battery like they did on the bluecar in Italy, 155 miles on a charge, better regen less stress on the batteries so much longer life. This is standard on every air condition so it's a natural of electric vehicles.
My 2013 LEAF was only $301 a month with zero down and a 2 year lease.
PS the way Electric are improving and dropping prices I would only LEASE. If you buy you will miss out on all the big improvements and lower costs each year or 2. I think the biggest improvement will be having ultra capacitors in parallel with each battery like they did on the bluecar in Italy, 155 miles on a charge, better regen less stress on the batteries so much longer life. This is standard on every air condition so it's a natural of electric vehicles.
DuncanWatson
Member
I got mine back in Feburary for $199/month with $1500 down for a 10,500 miles/year, 36 month lease. I have been loving the car.