Depreciation FYI

[awefulspeller]

I purchased my 2013 FFE, with leather for about 37,000. Just looked up the value on KBB, today...my FFE with about 7000 miles is worth about 19,000 (private party).

This is my first Ford. I can't believe there has been 20,000 of value lost in 2 years. This is an embarrassment... I used to be proud of this purchase. Now I kinda shake my head inside when people ask me about it. Especially, because Ford doesn't offer any sort of upgrades (extended batteries) or support for the vehicle.

I'm sure a prestigious company like Ford is addressing the issue.

 

[WetEV]

I purchased my 2013 FFE, with leather for about 37,000. Just looked up the value on KBB, today...my FFE with about 7000 miles is worth about 19,000 (private party).

This is my first Ford. I can't believe there has been 20,000 of value lost in 2 years. This is an embarrassment... I used to be proud of this purchase. Now I kinda shake my head inside when people ask me about it. Especially, because Ford doesn't offer any sort of upgrades (extended batteries) or support for the vehicle.

I'm sure a prestigious company like Ford is addressing the issue.

Didn't you get $7500 back in federal taxes? That reduced the value of your car, but increased the value of your bank account.

 

[Kakkerlak]

It's sort of shocking when you look at those numbers, isn't it ?

Most electric car used-price numbers are badly distorted by the incentives and subsidies, and by the absence of a meaningful used-car market to establish a true used-car value.

The Focus Electric is a dramatic example.

The Focus Electric sold so poorly in 2012 and 2013 that Ford made two price cuts for 2014. They dropped the list price by $4000, then added a $6000 incentive. Most buyers are eligible for up to $7500 in Federal tax credits.

So compared to 2012 and 2013 FFEs, a 2014 buyer is looking at a $10,000 lower price, so a drop of 20% in two years won't seem so dramatic.

I am leasing my 2014, and it will effectively drop 60% in value in just 36 months. That would be obscene for a gas-powered vehicle, but it's basically par for the course among battery-electrics.

 

[ElSupreme]

Well think about it this way ...

It has a $36,000 price (after negotiation).
It has a $6,000 manufacturer rebate.
It has a $7,500 federal tax rebate.
It has a $5,000 state (Georgia) tax rebate.

So a new FFE 'costs' ~$17,500. So you value doesn't look bad at all in comparison.

 

[michael]

That's exactly right. My capitalized cost was about 24K after applying the 2500 California money, and the residual is 18K, this with a lease that allows 57,500 miles.

A key reason the residuals are so low compared to the list price is that everyone knows the new car buyer gets huge discounts (at least in California) and huge rebates, none of which benefit the used car buyer. Plus the battery degradation and obsolescence issue.

 

[TonySpice]

I purchased my 2013 FFE, with leather for about 37,000. Just looked up the value on KBB, today...my FFE with about 7000 miles is worth about 19,000 (private party).

This is my first Ford. I can't believe there has been 20,000 of value lost in 2 years. This is an embarrassment... I used to be proud of this purchase. Now I kinda shake my head inside when people ask me about it. Especially, because Ford doesn't offer any sort of upgrades (extended batteries) or support for the vehicle.

I'm sure a prestigious company like Ford is addressing the issue.

Car costs Ford $60K to make and considering the Feds rebate your getting it for a steal.

 

[WattsUp]

Car costs Ford $60K to make

Source?

 

[Kakkerlak]

I'd love to see an analysis of the FFE's cost structure, but Ford certainly holds it close to the vest. I hope that the use of the Focus platform helps keep production retooling costs small, so most of the incremental cost is in the Magna drivetrain and the batteries. Magna, after all, built the prototype by stripping a 2008 Focus and installing their own drivetrain.

I work with aerospace tooling for a living, so I'm very aware of the huge costs of retooling for mass production. While the FFE is almost certainly not profitable, I doubt it's losing whine-in-front-of-investors kinds of money.

 

[fbitz777]

Car costs Ford $60K to make

Source?

I know Fiat was quoted as loosing 10k for each Fiat 500e.

 

[WetEV]

Car costs Ford $60K to make

Source?

I know Fiat was quoted as loosing 10k for each Fiat 500e.

Both Tesla and Nissan have stated that they make a profit on each sale. Now Tesla isn't covering fixed costs (like R&D), and Nissan probably isn't as well. This is easy to find for Tesla, read their quarterly reports, somewhat less so for Nissan. Ford?

Not $60K. You could buy a new Focus and do a conversion for less than that, not even counting selling the parts removed like the engine, and Ford should be able to do it for far less. But maybe not a profit, or at least a large profit, as Ford doesn't seem to be trying to sell unlimited numbers. Having a cool electric brings people into the dealerships that then will buy other cars that are (or are more) profitable.

This kit is for a Beetle, but the cost for a conversion to a gas Focus would be similar, roughly $20k for parts at retail, $2k to $10k to pay someone to do it. Ford should have no problem doing better, Fiat, well....

http://www.evwest.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=168

 

[Kakkerlak]

The Fiat number of "[we] lose $14,000 on each one" comes from a comment made by CEO Sergio Marchiione while addressing an investor's conference.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/21/chrsyelr-ceo-evs-idUSL1N0O71MS20140521

His dislike of the California compliance rules and his disdain for the 500E is obvious.

 

[fbitz777]

http://www.plugincars.com/fiat-500e


interesting and obviously Ford made more effort to make it stand out:

The Fiat 500e is widely considered a "compliance" car produced only in small numbers to meet California regulations.

“This is not an electric car,” said Matt Davis, head of Fiat brand marketing, over and over again. That was his cute way of explaining that Fiat 500 shoppers entering dealerships will get a pitch to switch to the EV. According to Davis, marketing the 500e to the EV crowd would be like using a “scalpel” to slice off a tiny fraction of a small market. The idea is to openly cannibalize their own Fiat 500 internal combustion customers, convincing them that Fiat 500 fun when mashing gears and a hearing a signature exhaust note (especially in the Abarth version) is even more fun when it's quick, silent and free of emissions.

•No eco modes.
•No dashboard monitors (except for the Tom-Tom navigation device that comes standard)
•No braking coaches or leaves for efficient braking.
•Same amount of creep as in the gas 500.
•No L or B gears (because engineers said the regen braking is already maxed out, even when not overly grabby.)

 

[epaminondas]

I got 6k off of sticker (37k), 5 years zero interest. There is no sales tax, we get 7500 back from federal, and over 5 years save 8k in gas. That totals 27000 in savings over a gas car. Even if it depreciates over 1/2 I will be walking away with cash in my pocket!

 

[jonessoda]

The Fiat number of "[we] lose $14,000 on each one" comes from a comment made by CEO Sergio Marchiione while addressing an investor's conference.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/21/chrsyelr-ceo-evs-idUSL1N0O71MS20140521

His dislike of the California compliance rules and his disdain for the 500E is obvious.

I can believe it. I have a 500e and it needed to have the HVB replaced shortly after I bought it due to a bad solenoid. The part cost $29,700.

 

[bullish1]

There is no doubt that you paid a dear price for being a fairly early adopter. I feel bad for you but it is what it is. I was a fairly early adopter of the Prius and the same type of devaluation happened for me but not so severe. I looked at the FFE in 2013 but decided against it. This year I jumped in because of the Tax credit, price cut, and incentive effectively saving $17,000. I did not get any state money so there are other who have done better than I but I hope that my decision pays off on a purely financial basis after 10 years. We will see.

 

[Hvatum]

I purchased my 2013 FFE, with leather for about 37,000. Just looked up the value on KBB, today...my FFE with about 7000 miles is worth about 19,000 (private party).

This is my first Ford. I can't believe there has been 20,000 of value lost in 2 years. This is an embarrassment... I used to be proud of this purchase. Now I kinda shake my head inside when people ask me about it. Especially, because Ford doesn't offer any sort of upgrades (extended batteries) or support for the vehicle.

I'm sure a prestigious company like Ford is addressing the issue.

Heh, you are not the only one. Long term we are still saving money. Did you really not get any tax rebates by the way? If you forgot to file for it, you might still not be too late:

http://finance.zacks.com/recover-tax-deduction-previous-year-2933.html

When you consider that long term you are saving a huge amount on maintenance and upkeep you are still coming out ahead. Like any technology though, you are paying a good bit for being a first adopter.

 

[awefulspeller]

Well, although I don't know how to find a good deal...I will say I'm extremely satisfied with my FFE. I'm discovering how to coast down hills and use the L gear to juice up the battery. It's actually kinda fun, and find myself driving the speed limit...which isn't a bad thing!

I'm happy with it. I can make it to work, go to lunch, and make it back home. Even today, with the colder weather...can still do it!

My parents live about 79 miles away, just on the cusps of the battery capability. I set the Nav to use only the most economical route and to not use highways. I've never been able to make it in one shot, but maybe taking the back roads will make a difference. Also, I think the FFE gives you a bit more juice if you put the destination in the NAV system...several times I shouldn't have made it home, but did....maybe its smarter than we think???

 

[WattsUp]

Also, I think the FFE gives you a bit more juice if you put the destination in the NAV system...several times I shouldn't have made it home, but did....maybe its smarter than we think???

No, wishful thinking. Using the navigation system does not "unlock" extra battery capacity.

It does, however, make it much easier to understand and monitor how your energy consumption is affecting your ability to make it to your destination. And that alone makes it much more likely that you will succeed.

 

[awefulspeller]

So, I've been noticing significant savings in my transportation costs since owning my FFE.

Bottom Line, I'm saving $665.60 every 4 months I drive my FFE instead of my Xterra. That's $1,996.80 per year!

I had some spare time during the holidays, and wanted to figure out the exact numbers. I created a document, and that's when it became very clear that I made a good decision purchasing my FFE.

I would like to show everyone the .pdf I created, but I can't figure out how to upload documents.

 

[jmueller065]

There are a bunch of ways to share documents these days. Some of the easier ones are dropbox, google drive, microsoft's drive, etc.

If you were to use dropbox for example: copy the file to the public directory in the dropbox folder, right click on it and then click on "Copy Public Link". Then post the link here.