Tesla model E specifications

[jeffand]

The Tesla Model E what are going to be some of the specifications?
It will have at least a 200 mile driving range. The model E should be about 20% smaller than the model S.
What it most likely will be able to use the super charging stations. It will also have about a 48 Kwh battery. As for horse power it most likely will be in the range of 200 to 300 horse power. The model E should also weight about 20% than the Model S. As for the battery pack this should be the biggest difference between the model E and the other Tesla models. One of the biggest obstacles to lowering cost is the price of the battery pack. The model S battery pack cost $30,000. In order to push the cost down Tesla will build a mega battery factory. The economics of scale will help reduce the price. But I think this alone is not enough to reduce the manufacturing cost below $15,000. Tesla will most likely move away from laptop size battery. They mostly like use a flat battery cell like the ones used in the FFE, and other electric vehicles. The reason for this is because a larger capacity cell can be made. With a larger capacity cell you can reduce the number of individual cells in the battery pack. This is how they could reduce the cost of the battery pack further

 

[pjam3]

They haven't even picked a state or location to build that huge battery factory yet, much less start building it. The Model X won't be delivered until 2015 now, so who knows when the Model E will actually come out. It might not be till 2018 the way things look.

And if the Tesla picks up like other cars in China, it becomes more on what they like and buy over what people in the US buy. People in the US are going to have to come to a new realization that the world doesn't really revolve around them anymore. Most of these businesses have like 65+ percent of their business outside the US. And it's not like the middle class in the US is doing well.

And Tesla likes to do funny math and marketing. The Model S is marketed as a $70K car, but 99.9 percent of the cars out there cost around $100K. I imagine it'll be similar for the Model E. It'll be advertised as some $30K car, but most people will have to buy the $50K model. And 50K isn't really that affordable to most people in the US anymore.

And by the time the Model E comes out, people will have bought the Leaf or Volt or whatever other models that are out there and gotten used to it. Many people love their FFE, so if Tesla creates a cheaper model that isn't all that more impressive than the FFE, why would you move over?

The Model S is a luxury car that is awesome. It is far superior than any other electric out there now. But it's also about $80K more than most other electrics out there when all is said and done. Many of us bought or leased the FFE for like $25K. The Model S, after rebates and credits, still will run you close to $100K.

And they really are a one car at a time kind of company at this point. It's a big reason why the Model X has been delayed. They haven't even started doing anything for the Model E at this point. There aren't even any definitive dates to delay. For me it's a nice dream to think of all the things it could have, but the reality is, it won't. Nobody buys a $30K car expecting it to be a luxury $75K Mercedes or BMW. So why would people expect a $40K Tesla to be almost like the $100K version?

 

[michael]

The Toyota RAV-4 EV has a complete Tesla power train, including approximately 40 kWH battery. Even with an EV body, it has a range in the order of 120 miles with full charge. It has 40 Amp/10kW charging. I'm wondering if Tesla will simply put a sedan body on top of the RAV-4 chassis and powertrain. It's ready to go.

Based on my experience with the RAV-4 EV, it they did that and the price was similar to the RAV-4, I'd be interested. It has a sticker price just under $50K, so about $15K more than an FFE. Of course, like Ford, Toyota throws a ton of incentive money at the deal so the out-the-door price is much lower. I wouldn't expect Tesla to do that sort of thing, so I'm figuring $50K less $7500 federal and any state money...

$40K after taxes? 120 to maybe 150 mile range? 10kW charging? Sounds good to me

 

[jeffand]

The Tesla model S is configured with one or two 10 KW chargers. It would be logical that the model E could be configured in the same way. A single 10 KW charger could charge the battery in 5 hours or less. The RAV4 EV is built on a heaver steal frame and body. Plus it has more aerodynamic drag and only has MPGe rating of 76. The model S with the 60 Kwh battery has an MPGe rating of 95. The Rav4 EV has a 41.8 Kwh battery compared to the 48 Kwh battery the model E may have. The model E will have to have a 100 plus MPGe rating in order to achieve the 200 mile driving range. The model S 60 Kwh battery claims a range of 208 miles.

 

[pjam3]

There won't be a Tesla Model E as they gave up that name. Not sure what the name of their car will be and not sure when it will ever come out. Tesla seems more interested in building the GigaBattery factories on top of actually releasing the Model X eventually. The cheaper Tesla has lost some of it's luster at this point and isn't really talked about at all.

When Musk is asked about it, of course he'll say something, but in general, I'm not sure they are really spending a ton of time thinking about "how to sell a 40K" electric. If and when they build these huge battery factories, and start licensing out these batteries to other manufacturers, they might be able to sell a cheaper electric at a huge loss. But I'm not sure when. We've seen other companies not interested in selling Electrics or market them because it's a loss. Nobody wants to make products that lose money every time they sell one. Tesla is in a unique spot, but they are also young and new. They can't afford a cheap Electric that isn't much better than a FFE or Leaf.

People love the Model S because it's an incredible car. And Tesla is kind of taking a hit on the cost of this car. Batteries are expensive in electrics and Tesla is no different. But If it were an ICE car, it still is an incredible car. How do they replicate that into a cheaper electric without being able to make cheaper batteries ? I mean the Model S should sell for around $135K, but most people buy it for around $100K. Tesla makes up for it with selling credits to other manufacturers. That won't last forever either.


It is going to be far harder to sell a $75K car for $40K though. And that 's not really cheap. Look at the FFE, Volt, Leaf. After rebates and everything else, many people are getting them for like $25K. $25K vs $40K is a huge difference and if the cheaper Tesla isn't really better than those cars, it's not worth $40K. Spending $100K on a Model S is steep, but there is nothing that compares to it. Nothing. If they can replicate that into some smaller package for $40K, it'll work. But if they make a $40K car that's not much better than one of the Electrics or Hybrids that sell for $25K, it's not going to work out as well.

Or they could pull an Amazon. Amazon lost money for the first decade of their existence. They would buy books for 20 bucks and sell them for 10 in a sense. But they got their name out there. They got experience. THey build their infrastructure and everything else. They change the way people shop.

If Tesla sells the Model Cheaper Car for $25K and doesn't care that they are losing a ton of money, but they get their name out there to avg consumers, and everybody wants one, no other electric car will even compete. A $25K Tesla that is almost as good as the Model S will destroy the FFE, Volts, Leafs, etc. Look at how popular the $100K model is. Look at how people stop in their mall stores like it's an Apple store. Will they do that? It doesn't seem like it, but if they wanted to really push the Auto Industry to the ledge and change the game, they would be like Amazon in a way and lose a ton of money on the cheaper Tesla, but by the time it's all said and done, the other companies would be forced to change the way they do business or they'd go out of business.

 

[ElSupreme]

$25K vs $40K is a huge difference and if the cheaper Tesla isn't really better than those cars, it's not worth $40K.

The main thing I see with the Tesla GenIII vehicle is that they aren't really targeting the existing electric cars. They are going to sell a car with twice the range (150 mile real range), and battery capacity. And for the same price as an BMW i3.

I have come to realize that (two car family) I don't need a car that drives more than 75 miles in a day. (I do have a 60 mile commute). I have a Model S that does any non-commute driving after its commute duties are done with. But most people don't have that realization. And it will take longer range electric cars for them to learn that.

 

[michael]

Last lease quote I got on an I3 was $3K driveaway plus $914/month, approximately $1000/month if the driveaway is figured into the monthly.

While is unlikely Tesla will offer a lease, I thinks that's a valid estimate of the equivalent expense of the "new" Tesla. For $600/month I'm leasing an FFE and a Volt. So for less than the estimated cost of owning a 150 mile "new" Tesla, our family gets two cars and the ability to travel any distance whatsoever. I think that's a far more attractive approach and one that can be done today, not at some point in Tesla's future.

 

[ElSupreme]

Last lease quote I got on an I3 was $3K driveaway plus $914/month, approximately $1000/month if the driveaway is figured into the monthly.

While is unlikely Tesla will offer a lease, I thinks that's a valid estimate of the equivalent expense of the "new" Tesla. For $600/month I'm leasing an FFE and a Volt. So for less than the estimated cost of owning a 150 mile "new" Tesla, our family gets two cars and the ability to travel any distance whatsoever. I think that's a far more attractive approach and one that can be done today, not at some point in Tesla's future.

I don't pay much more than $1000 a month for my Model S payments (72mo). Sure I put more than $3k down but a $40k car doesn't cost $1000 a month.

You can finance 100% of $40k at 3% interest over 60mo and only pay a little over $700 a month.

 

[twscrap]

Lease payments for the i3 are insane. The new Owner's Choice with Flex financial program that BMW developed specifically for the i3 is the only way to go. I'm picking mine up tonight. 36 month, 12k miles, zero due at signing for $639/month.

 

[pjam3]

Last lease quote I got on an I3 was $3K driveaway plus $914/month, approximately $1000/month if the driveaway is figured into the monthly.

While is unlikely Tesla will offer a lease, I thinks that's a valid estimate of the equivalent expense of the "new" Tesla. For $600/month I'm leasing an FFE and a Volt. So for less than the estimated cost of owning a 150 mile "new" Tesla, our family gets two cars and the ability to travel any distance whatsoever. I think that's a far more attractive approach and one that can be done today, not at some point in Tesla's future.

I don't pay much more than $1000 a month for my Model S payments (72mo). Sure I put more than $3k down but a $40k car doesn't cost $1000 a month.

You can finance 100% of $40k at 3% interest over 60mo and only pay a little over $700 a month.

But will it be a $40K car? The Model S is marketed as a $70K car, but 99 percent of people who own the car, paid around $100K because everything you actually want is extra on the Model S. Who buys the Model S without the 85kw battery? Who buys it with the nice extra features ? When I priced them out on their website, the cheapest I ever got to was around $89K, and that was leaving a lot of things out I wanted. Nothing like buying a $75K car that is bare bones minimum.

Tesla also likes to include the credits/rebates into their prices. They like to include other metrics like "save from pumping gas" and so on. A lot of their price point is marketing and not actual "this car only costs this much." So when they finally do release that $40K car, will it be the same scenario where 99 percent of people wind up paying $70K for it? If so, that'll probably mean 99 percent of people cant' afford it. And it won't be cheap. Like I said, The Model S is marketed as a $70K car, but most people pay around $100K for one.

 

[michael]

You are exactly right about Tesla. They are shameless in their manipulation of the numbers. They describe the car as having a $63570 price totally stripped and after the tax incentives (did they add the sales tax back in? Naw!)

The real price is probably 50% higher than that. So the promised $40K Tesla is more likely to have a $60K or so sticker. I don't see it becoming price competitive with FFE, Volt, Leaf etc. Not that it won't be very attractive, but people are scared by the $36K sticker on on FFE. The cheap Tesla will still be priced in BMW territory.

 

[ElSupreme]

But will it be a $40K car? The Model S is marketed as a $70K car, but 99 percent of people who own the car, paid around $100K because everything you actually want is extra on the Model S. Who buys the Model S without the 85kw battery? Who buys it with the nice extra features ? When I priced them out on their website, the cheapest I ever got to was around $89K, and that was leaving a lot of things out I wanted. Nothing like buying a $75K car that is bare bones minimum.

Tesla also likes to include the credits/rebates into their prices. They like to include other metrics like "save from pumping gas" and so on. A lot of their price point is marketing and not actual "this car only costs this much." So when they finally do release that $40K car, will it be the same scenario where 99 percent of people wind up paying $70K for it? If so, that'll probably mean 99 percent of people cant' afford it. And it won't be cheap. Like I said, The Model S is marketed as a $70K car, but most people pay around $100K for one.

My car was sub $90k and most of the people I personally know have sub $90k cars as well. Getting the P version (or lots of options) is what pushes you over $90k (and quite rapidly with the P and P+). Also there have been price increases. When the Model S first came out it was $5-$10k cheaper.

This is true. There also have been so Model S price increases (mine today would be almost $10k more than I bougt it for). And no one bought the 40kWh battery. But you could buy one for $57k when they came out. And honestly a base Tesla is pretty nice (I have cloth seats). Much like the 'base' FFE is really nice.

One of the reasons I think the Model S didn't sell lots of base models is three fold. One I think the expected base price was actually lower than most people were expecting. And there wasn't much exposure to people who could afford the base model, but not the higher end versions. Second is that the Model S is exceptionally large to be a city car. And the 40kWh pack was really just a city car. And lastly Tesla was (and somewhat still is) in a precarious situation, in that they could cease to exist rather quickly. And lower income people betting $60k on a car, only to have the company fold in 3 years is a big risk. And the average upper-middle class family couldn't afford to take.

 

[pjam3]

But will it be a $40K car? The Model S is marketed as a $70K car, but 99 percent of people who own the car, paid around $100K because everything you actually want is extra on the Model S. Who buys the Model S without the 85kw battery? Who buys it with the nice extra features ? When I priced them out on their website, the cheapest I ever got to was around $89K, and that was leaving a lot of things out I wanted. Nothing like buying a $75K car that is bare bones minimum.

Tesla also likes to include the credits/rebates into their prices. They like to include other metrics like "save from pumping gas" and so on. A lot of their price point is marketing and not actual "this car only costs this much." So when they finally do release that $40K car, will it be the same scenario where 99 percent of people wind up paying $70K for it? If so, that'll probably mean 99 percent of people cant' afford it. And it won't be cheap. Like I said, The Model S is marketed as a $70K car, but most people pay around $100K for one.

My car was sub $90k and most of the people I personally know have sub $90k cars as well. Getting the P version (or lots of options) is what pushes you over $90k (and quite rapidly with the P and P+). Also there have been price increases. When the Model S first came out it was $5-$10k cheaper.

This is true. There also have been so Model S price increases (mine today would be almost $10k more than I bougt it for). And no one bought the 40kWh battery. But you could buy one for $57k when they came out. And honestly a base Tesla is pretty nice (I have cloth seats). Much like the 'base' FFE is really nice.

One of the reasons I think the Model S didn't sell lots of base models is three fold. One I think the expected base price was actually lower than most people were expecting. And there wasn't much exposure to people who could afford the base model, but not the higher end versions. Second is that the Model S is exceptionally large to be a city car. And the 40kWh pack was really just a city car. And lastly Tesla was (and somewhat still is) in a precarious situation, in that they could cease to exist rather quickly. And lower income people betting $60k on a car, only to have the company fold in 3 years is a big risk. And the average upper-middle class family couldn't afford to take.

I never understand the "city car" philosophy. I've lived in places like NYC, Seattle, LA. I've worked in San Fran and so on. I didn't need any car, much less some marketed "city car." I live in San diego now and didn't have a car when i lived downtown or in Little Italy. There really is no reason at all to have a car in most of these places. Buy a bike. Use services like car2go and so on. No reason to spend $50K+ on a car in a city. People might do it, but it's not about being green or better for the environment at that point.

Plus if you live in a City, you probably don't have a garage or a place to charge the car. That's kind of the fact of life about "city living." Even in cities like San Diego, which are nothing like NYC" you live in a condo, apartment, etc. Or you live in a small house with no garage and park on the streets. Which gets back to, "why do you need an electric car for city driving?"

I don't buy the electric cars are great for "City driving" because it is just a BS marketing statement. Most people who live in cities can't charge the car and most people could walk or ride a bike instead of adding more cars to the road. Yeah if you live outside the city and drive 10 miles to the city/10 miles home, it makes sense. But I wouldn't call that city driving or city living. More like somebody lives in the burbs and works in the city. And they probably spend as little time in the city when they aren't working anyway.

Places like NYC, again, don't need a car at all. You could say the same about San Fran or Silicon Valley. Seattle is a little tougher because they have limited public transportation. San Diego has none where most of the jobs are(which isn't in the city). Portland is great for not having a car. Chicago is a place you don't always need a car either. I just think "great for cities" is something people need to tell themselves, but it's not true at all. You want to make a greener planet, but a bike or walk. You don't really need a car to go 3 miles a day in some city.

 

[ElSupreme]

I never understand the "city car" philosophy.

I don't buy the electric cars are great for "City driving" because it is just a BS marketing statement. Most people who live in cities can't charge the car and most people could walk or ride a bike instead of adding more cars to the road. Yeah if you live outside the city and drive 10 miles to the city/10 miles home, it makes sense. But I wouldn't call that city driving or city living. More like somebody lives in the burbs and works in the city. And they probably spend as little time in the city when they aren't working anyway.

My city car is basically what you are calling a sub-urbs car. When I say 'city car' I mean a car that most likely will never leave the Atlanta metro area. And with no fast charging available, and a limited ~80 mile range a FFE is going to be basically city locked, and thus the term city car.

ICE cars and the Model S to an extent are not locked to their own city. The FFE and most EVs are not going far beyond their city. This makes them a City car. It doesn't mean I am only driving 4 miles to work. I am driving 30 (23 within the city limits of Atlanta) miles each way every day. All of them in a continuous urban area. Add to that over 1000 feet of elevation change on my route to work and a bicycle all the sudden doesn't make any sense.

And anyone can charge a EV. All you need is a plug, and they are EZ to find if you actually look. Might not be as convenient as a single unit house with garage, but is isn't hard.

 

[pjam3]

I never understand the "city car" philosophy.

I don't buy the electric cars are great for "City driving" because it is just a BS marketing statement. Most people who live in cities can't charge the car and most people could walk or ride a bike instead of adding more cars to the road. Yeah if you live outside the city and drive 10 miles to the city/10 miles home, it makes sense. But I wouldn't call that city driving or city living. More like somebody lives in the burbs and works in the city. And they probably spend as little time in the city when they aren't working anyway.

My city car is basically what you are calling a sub-urbs car. When I say 'city car' I mean a car that most likely will never leave the Atlanta metro area. And with no fast charging available, and a limited ~80 mile range a FFE is going to be basically city locked, and thus the term city car.

ICE cars and the Model S to an extent are not locked to their own city. The FFE and most EVs are not going far beyond their city. This makes them a City car. It doesn't mean I am only driving 4 miles to work. I am driving 30 (23 within the city limits of Atlanta) miles each way every day. All of them in a continuous urban area. Add to that over 1000 feet of elevation change on my route to work and a bicycle all the sudden doesn't make any sense.

And anyone can charge a EV. All you need is a plug, and they are EZ to find if you actually look. Might not be as convenient as a single unit house with garage, but is isn't hard.

The FFE, Leaf, etc are great for what you're doing. I agree with that. ANybody can charge an EV, but if you spend 10-12 hours a day at work and need to wait around at some charging station for 4 hours, time is money to me. So yeah I'd save in gas, but spending 4+ hours charging up every night after a long day at work is wasting a lot of time. Especially considering many charging stations are pretty much not near anything or anything where you'd want to spend 4+ hours.

 

[twscrap]

Add to that over 1000 feet of elevation change on my route to work and a bicycle all the sudden doesn't make any sense..

Hmm. I would have thought it was July/August that caused a bicycle to make no sense.

 

[ElSupreme]

Add to that over 1000 feet of elevation change on my route to work and a bicycle all the sudden doesn't make any sense..

Hmm. I would have thought it was July/August that caused a bicycle to make no sense.

Really January and ~30 miles is enough to deter me. In fact Dec-Feb is good enough deterrent.

 

[Abelgoddard]

I think pjam3 has a basic misunderstanding of what is meant by "city car", along with a misunderstanding of how many people actually live in his version of a City. The majority of people DON'T live in places where walking to work or taking public transportation is an option. Expanding the term city car to include a metroplex is closer to accurate, but again, there are still more people outside those areas. City car still primarily means it's not going to be used for extensive traveling - outside of it's resident city, typically.

And, City doesn't just mean places with 5 million people living in them; when I read comments that dismiss the notion that anyone lives outside of urban environments, it's very irritating. To me, it exudes an elitist and exclusionary attitude that is completely unwarranted.

 

[portable]

http://insideevs.com/tesla-3rd-gen-car-gets-name-tesla-model-iii/
well , at least tesla has finally named the "Model III". Its hiding under the black tarp/cover in this article, but it sure could pass for a FFE !

 

[jeffand]

When I think of a city car I would define it as vehicle that is not able to do freeway speeds of 65 MPH. It should also be able to drive at this 55 MPH for at least an hour with out recharging. The FFE, and the leaf can do this, but iMiev may not be able to do this.