Next Week--NAIAS

[triangles]

They are saying ~73kWh with ~63kWh usable hmmm.

I did some quick back of the napkin calculations and I think they are overestimating a bit. I'm guessing it's about 55-58kWh useable that will probably be advertised as a 60-65kWh battery. It'll be interesting to see what it turns out to be.

 

[jmueller065]

Oh look, Ford updated the Fusions:
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/detroit-auto-show/2016/01/11/ford-fusion-sport-platinum/78613012/

And the Energi still only has a 19 mile range...tsk tsk tsk... sigh

 

[jmueller065]

Bolt specs revealed: 60kWh
http://insideevs.com/chevrolet-bolt-ev-specs-revealed-60-kwh-0-60-in-less-than-7-seconds/

 

[michael]

Presumably this means 60 total and about 50 usable. This is pretty good. Looks like Ford has surrendered the BEV and EREV market and is banking on PHEV for its electrification program. What a shame.

 

[hybridbear]

Oh look, Ford updated the Fusions:
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/detroit-auto-show/2016/01/11/ford-fusion-sport-platinum/78613012/

And the Energi still only has a 19 mile range...tsk tsk tsk... sigh

So what was under the tarp then? Just the new Fusion body on the existing Energi powertrain? What a letdown!!

 

[jmueller065]

So what was under the tarp then? Just the new Fusion body on the existing Energi powertrain? What a letdown!!

Yes. Go to about 13 minutes to see the Fusions
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SW0UJVnkhVE

I think they did say longer EV range but if you blink you'll miss that statement. Haven't seen any official announcement from Ford what that "longer range" will be though (the news seemed to think it was still 19 miles).

The 2017 Fusion website doesn't provide any details either:
http://www.ford.com/cars/fusion/2017/?fmccmp=lp-future-top-hp-2017-fusion

Although that 350hp V6 Fusion sport will be one heck of a hotrod!

 

[michael]

Chevrolet presents a 200 mile EV
Ford presents a bigger pickup truck

Okay.......

 

[Stretch2727]

Really disappointed today. Expected something better than the Bolt from Ford and got nothing.

This is the typical "Innovators Dilemma" for all the major automakers. They are not making money on the Focus Electric for sure. To invest more is throwing away more money.

Yes, GM is looks good on paper with the Bolt but remember they are setting up capacity for only 30,000. No plans for a charging network. So they sell 30,000 Bolts when Tesla will be well over 100,000 high prices S's and X's in 2017. In 2018 would you buy a Bolt for the same price as a Tesla when you have get the benefit of the super charger network?

What the major automakers do not realize is this is not no longer just about climate change or efficiency. This is about making the best possible automobile. Electric cars will win not just because of efficiency but because they are superior in every way once the range and cost issues are addressed.

The question is not whether Tesla will survive but who will be left as their competitor in 2030.

 

[jmueller065]

Yes, GM is looks good on paper with the Bolt but remember they are setting up capacity for only 30,000.

Really? You honestly believe that GM couldn't make more Bolts if the market demanded it? I would bet GM turning production on a dime more than I would bet on Tesla.

You're also going to have a chicken and egg issue here: If GM does sell 30k Bolts a year you can count on many businesses and locations rushing to install CCS & Level 2 chargers--suddenly Tesla's supercharger network won't be such of an advantage (think about that: Many companies setting up chargers independently than a single company footing the bill for all).

Personally, though, I don't think GM (nor Tesla) will be selling a ton right away anyway. The current proliferation of EVs is going to cause gas prices to drop further...

 

[triangles]

Disappointing, I guess it looks like my next car won't be a Ford......

 

[michael]

Same here. They don't offer anything I want

 

[Stretch2727]

Yes, GM is looks good on paper with the Bolt but remember they are setting up capacity for only 30,000.

Really? You honestly believe that GM couldn't make more Bolts if the market demanded it? I would bet GM turning production on a dime more than I would bet on Tesla.

Sure they can make more. Max OT can usually add 20-30% if the suppliers can keep up. My point is the car will likely be capacity constrained.

Actually GM is headed in the right direction compared to Ford. They have a competitive plug in hybrid (Volt) and a competitive BEV (Bolt).

Just surprised Ford is not doing more to be competitive in this space. Maybe there will be a surprise at some point. I just though it would be at this show.

Tesla, GM, BMW and maybe Nissan are going to be far in front of them.

 

[Lithium]

I'm more and more realizing that "we" FFE or full EV drivers are far ahead of the curve of what the mainstream public thinks it wants. You really need to have time behind the wheel to realize that this works, although requires a little more planning, to drive everywhere you want.
The PHEV choice is what Ford thinks it can sell to the mainstream public. The compliance part of our FFE is really a research tool.

I don't see fault in their strategy because the herd moves slowly and herd mentality changes slowly. We are outliers.

GM's Bolt is a great package. I would trade my FFE immediately for it. I hope the driving dynamics are as fun as the FFE.

I'm curious what Hyundai/Kia will bring to the party. I Think they will be then next big EV player behind GM, BMW, Nissan. I saw the Soul EV at the drive electric week this summer and like it a lot. It needs to have 200 miles to compete as a package against the Bolt.

I also fear the Bolt at $30K after rebate will be a stripper with bare essentials. It likely will be a $33-35K car at delivery with options. The 90 miles in 30 min is a little weak. I think as a full replacement for my long distance drives it could work, but, the Tesla infrastructure is much more reassuring than a haphazard sprinkle of DC fast chargers. I don't see GM investing in these networks.
I look at 3-4 apps to find all the charging options around my area and there seems to be many hidden options if you look too briefly. What would that be like if you want to drive 300-400 miles in a day.
My lease is up in Feb 2017. I looks unlikely that a Ford will be in the options lists.

 

[michael]

I'm more and more realizing that "we" FFE or full EV drivers are far ahead of the curve of what the mainstream public thinks it wants. You really need to have time behind the wheel to realize that this works, although requires a little more planning, to drive everywhere you want.

I agree. Many people reject EVs because they aren't a lot cheaper. I desire them because they are superior...smooth, quiet, no dealing with gas stations. But yes, they do require planning. My wife and daughter aren't willing to plan quite as much, so the Volt is perfect for them

GM's Bolt is a great package. I would trade my FFE immediately for it. I hope the driving dynamics are as fun as the FFE.

I also fear the Bolt at $30K after rebate will be a stripper with bare essentials. It likely will be a $33-35K car at delivery with options. The 90 miles in 30 min is a little weak. I think as a full replacement for my long distance drives it could work, but, the Tesla infrastructure is much more reassuring than a haphazard sprinkle of DC fast chargers. I don't see GM investing in these networks.

My lease is up in Feb 2017. I looks unlikely that a Ford will be in the options lists.

Yes, I would trade mine today and pay off the remaining lease payments if necessary. I have the FFE mothballed for the winter due to reduced range and oversubscription to the workplace charging. I'm driving a Volt so I don't need to worry.

One of my Volts is loaded, but one is lightly optioned. It's still very well equipped, and I'm assuming the Bolt will have a comparable level. The only thing I added to the lightly optioned one was rear view camera. The delta between base and loaded for the Volt is about $4k, so I'm assuming similar for Bolt. Even the low optioned Volt included free Onstar so the Nav function is effectively present even without paying for the official nav system. You push a button, tell a real person where you want to go, and they download the route into your car. Turn-by-turn nav still appears, just not the big moving map.

As I have said here, I am unconcerned about DCFC or for that matter most public charging. My employer is an example of this...a year ago workplace charging was easy. Now a bunch of new cars have shown up and it's a struggle every day. What I care about is the energy I can carry with me...Bolt has plenty for 99% of my use, and Volt obviously will handle 100%

The FFE initially was good for 95%+ of my needs, but as the battery faded and workplace charging became less dependable, it's on the verge of being unusable. I will make it work through the summer and then say goodbye to it and to all of the 80 or even 100 mile class cars.

 

[damania]

This guy really likes the 2016 Volt over his Nissan Leaf. The acceleration and handling are superior according to his comments on the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvNN_Foq9os

 

[triangles]

As much as I despise GM (personal reasons) and can never bring myself to own one of their vehicles. The Volt looks pretty sharp especially compared to the fugliness of the Leaf.