Next Week--NAIAS

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jmueller065

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Well we're a week away from the NAIAS (or Detroit Auto Show). I'm pretty sure Ford will reveal what is under the tarp:
https://twitter.com/Ford/status/675383504788520961?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

Given the presentation: car under tarp along with an FFE, Fusion Energie, and C-Max Energie it may be a new plug-in version of one of their other vehicles (I had originally thought it will just be a new version of the Fusion Energie given the headlights look so much like one). It still has the crappy circle plug hole, and no evidence of CCS.

We'll know in a week...
 
Clean Technica and some other sites think it's a PHEV Edge
http://cleantechnica.com/2015/12/13/ford-teases-january-reveal-new-plug-suv/

I'm still not convinced that the vehicle under the tarp is big enough to be something other than the redesigned Fusion. I guess we'll find out in 7 days.
 
I don't think its tall enough to be an Edge. I also think it looks big but really isn't--forced perspective. Note how it is parked closer to the camera than any of the other 3 cars.

Here is an excellent example of forced perspective:
perspective-photography-64.jpg

The guy simply looks huge because he is closer to the camera.

You know, we know how much effort Ford has put into plug-ins in general. Knowing that my guess is its a plug-in MKZ (which would be really easy on Ford's part: just put the Fusion Energi pieces into the MKZ--they could probably do that in a day).
 
Chevy will unveil the Bolt this Wednesday. Unless Ford shocks us by showing a 200 mile class car, they will have fallen pathetically behind the competition.
 
Michael said:
Chevy will unveil the Bolt this Wednesday. Unless Ford shocks us by showing a 200 mile class car, they will have fallen pathetically behind the competition.
Click to expand...
They won't. I'm about 99% sure it will be a phev.

Unless Ford is really scamming people by having a Fusion Energi under that tarp (e.g. not even having the real prototype they are going to show on Monday).
 
Ford is pretty much "all in" on automated cars and connected cars, they don't seem to care one way or another for the FFE or EVs. If the market ever picks up, they might be all for it, but right now, they opened a new R&D lab in Silicon Valley for mostly non EV stuff.
 
I was asking myself what Ford might be offering that would impress me. Only two things came to mind...

1. A 200 mile class Bolt/Tesla 3/next gen Leaf competitor...WOW!...and nobody suspected...that would be stunning
2. A Volt competitor...upgrade of Energi power system to provide 50 mile class all electric range plus an extender engine..Very nice...Fusion platform would avoid some of the criticisms leveled at Volt


Unfortunately, I expect all the hoopla is for today's (yesterday's, really) PHEV Energi power system in some other body. Phhhhht


I am reaching the realization that Chevrolet is on the verge of becoming the leader in reasonably priced electric vehicles (i.e., other than Tesla). They offer an EREV that is a legitimate competitor to the BMW I3 (less AER but also less expensive and much better hybrid range and performance). By the end of the year we expect them to be actually selling a BEV that competes with promised Tesla 3 and promised next generation Leaf.
 
michael said:
I am reaching the realization that Chevrolet is on the verge of becoming the leader in reasonably priced electric vehicles (i.e., other than Tesla).
Click to expand...
Have they trademarked "Chev-E" yet?
 
WattsUp said:
michael said:
I am reaching the realization that Chevrolet is on the verge of becoming the leader in reasonably priced electric vehicles (i.e., other than Tesla).
Click to expand...
Have they trademarked "Chev-E" yet?
Click to expand...
Would the car be the Chevrolet Chev-E? Or the Chevy Chev-E? Hahaha :lol:
 
I dont' even know if Tesla will be the leader in the affordable EV market. They should, but they are starting to show their own cracks in actually producing and building enough cars. Maybe once the gigafactory comes out, but they have a hard time making a small amount of cars (Model S and a horrible start to actually delivering the Model X), so how are they actually going to keep up with producing hundreds of thousands of cheaper EVs? Unless they make the car a shell of the other ones, I just don't see them mass producing them anytime soon. Or if they do it won't be what anybody expects or wants.

Musk and Tesla have been known to surprise people, but the way they've had issues releasing the Model X and even the Model S, I just don't see them making over 250K in a timely fashion (the estimate of Leafs sold over about 4 years). I mean they only delivered like 55K cars in 2015, and had issues doing that, so it's hard to imagine they would start pushing out 100K-200K cheaper EVs per year by 2017 or 2018. And if the Bolt or whatever is released and people kind of like it, they would already have a head start. People will wait for a Tesla if it's a Model S or Model X, but if it's some cheaper version, who knows.

I love Musk, but he's starting to sound full of it far more often than not these days on many topics.
 
More details have leaked before the official Bolt release today (@ 4pm Eastern):
http://insideevs.com/2017-chevrolet-bolt-details-leak-ahead-todays-reveal/
 
The presentation didn't give the kind of technical information I was hoping for, but the sales talk sounded pretty good.

Battery size?
Charging system?
Thermal management?
Resistive or heat pump?

How equipped for base price? How much fully loaded?


I really liked that they are offering something I have been asking about here for a long time...a terrain and weather based range estimator. A lot of people told me it couldn't be done, sounds like GM is doing it...
 
pjam3 said:
I dont' even know if Tesla will be the leader in the affordable EV market. They should, but they are starting to show their own cracks in actually producing and building enough cars. Maybe once the gigafactory comes out, but they have a hard time making a small amount of cars (Model S and a horrible start to actually delivering the Model X), so how are they actually going to keep up with producing hundreds of thousands of cheaper EVs? Unless they make the car a shell of the other ones, I just don't see them mass producing them anytime soon. Or if they do it won't be what anybody expects or wants.

Musk and Tesla have been known to surprise people, but the way they've had issues releasing the Model X and even the Model S, I just don't see them making over 250K in a timely fashion (the estimate of Leafs sold over about 4 years). I mean they only delivered like 55K cars in 2015, and had issues doing that, so it's hard to imagine they would start pushing out 100K-200K cheaper EVs per year by 2017 or 2018. And if the Bolt or whatever is released and people kind of like it, they would already have a head start. People will wait for a Tesla if it's a Model S or Model X, but if it's some cheaper version, who knows.

I love Musk, but he's starting to sound full of it far more often than not these days on many topics.
Click to expand...

I agree with you. And I think Tesla's target price refers to a stripped down model that nobody will actually buy. Our FFE's come very very well equipped for the base price. If you want XM radio in a Telsa, it's an extra $4000 (premium sound $2500 plus panoramic roof $1500). That alone is a year's lease on an FFE and probably a Bolt.

I wouldn't wait for a model 3...will instead almost certainly replace the FFE with a Bolt and then consider a model 3 when Bolt lease expires...if in fact the model 3 then seems worthwhile.
 
I'm guessing its a ~50kWh battery based on the 9 hour Level 2 charge time figure given (assuming 6.6kW charger and using the FFE's ~20kWh battery taking 3.5+ hours to charge to full).
 
Using the Motor Trend numbers and assuming 80% overall charge efficiency (with allocation for taper down near completion) I came up with a similar number, maybe a little higher.

My guess is 55 kWh usable, 200 miles at 275 Wh/mile
 

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