Looking to buy a used FFE

[Omen87]

Hello everyone! Found this forum a few days ago and I've been skulking about for a bit. I'm looking to buy a used FFE for less than $10,000. There are a few within a few hours of me. I live in central Kansas so there aren't too many around. Found a white 2012 that came from California (still has HOV lane decals on it) for $8995 with 33k miles on it. Is there anything in particular that I should be looking for if I go look at it? Being that it's about 5 hours away I'd like to be sure before I get there if I can be. Thanks!

 

[EVA]

I've been away from the forum for a long time. Lease on our 2012 is up and I wanted a used replacement. Live in the Chicago area. And just bought a 2013 Ingot Silver from California.

From what you describe, that seems like a reasonable deal. There are a ton of cars coming off lease, and the prices should just go down over time. They are hard to sell.

Remember you will have to flat bed tow the car home - you'll never make a 5 hour drive in the car. So be sure to count that into your adventure.

I ran into two cars that made me puke when I got in them, number one was a smoker car from Orland Park, IL. Unless you smoke, don't ever buy a car from a smoker. And the other one came from somewhere in Missouri and smelled nasty musty. My advice, smell the car.

The rest is pretty obvious used car things. Drives straight, stops well, lights work, it runs...

Check the tires carefully - take a tire depth gauge with you. Good chance the OEM Michelins are on that car and you'll need new tires - about $700. Also make sure they are all the same. I didn't look carefully at the car I bought, it had an orphan step child tire - probably a used tire that was cheap to complete the lease turn in. I'll probably buy new tires soon. (If anybody from California recognizes that scenario, PM me, I bought your car).

Use the tire condition to get the price down.

Also check to be sure the tire repair kit and 110V charging cable are in the car. You know where to find them, right?

Good luck. Hope you get a sweet smelling car.

 

[Omen87]

Yeah, I've already been looking at towing it home. Going to try and borrow a pickup from a friend or drive down there in something fuel efficient and rent the smallest U-haul and their flatbed trailer to get her home.

Thanks for the reminder about the smoking. I'm not a smoker so that doesn't even cross my mind until I get into someone's car that has been smoked in and proceed to gag.

The 110v cord and tire kit are under the flap in the hatch area correct?

I'm planning on starting out just charging with the 110v cord. My town is only 50,000 people so my commute back and forth to work is only 10 minutes or so. I shouldn't have to charge more than once a week unless I plug in every evening to keep the battery warm (gotta clean the garage out, ) I'll have to have a 220v outlet installed in the garage and then either get a TurboCord or another level 2 charger.

 

[EVA]

Yes the 110V will work for a while. Winter is a little tougher - it has a hard time with keeping the battery warm and adding charge. We went through a winter using 110V in Chicago and it worked fine, as long as you didn't drive too far. The 240V will be much better - the car will work a lot better all around.

One thing I forgot - it should have a fairly new 12V battery in it. There were a lot of problems with 12V batteries. Ford replaced a ton of them. The battery shouldn't be more than a year old in the car. If it isn't brand new, that isn't a red flag, just be aware you might have to replace it.

Just be sure all 4 wheels are off the ground to tow it, especially that distance.

Yes that's where the charger and pump are. You know your stuff man.

 

[Omen87]

Oh yeah, I'm planning on use their flatbed trailer not the tow dolly. I hate those tow dolly trailers, everything just seems super unstable. The car is at a funny angle for a long time and seems like it could really stress the steering and the rear suspension.

I'm pretty mechanically inclined so minor repairs to the car's basic systems I have no issue doing, such as the 12V battery. However, the high voltage system I will leave to the professionals.

My local dealership is listed on Ford's website as "Certified Electric Vehicle Repair" so hopefully they have someone there that knows what they are doing if it ever needs the high voltage harness replaced on one of the FSAs that are out there.

 

[jmueller065]

Oh yeah, I'm planning on use their flatbed trailer not the tow dolly. I hate those tow dolly trailers, everything just seems super unstable. The car is at a funny angle for a long time and seems like it could really stress the steering and the rear suspension.

Actually towing with a dolly is very stable. Even though Ford states in the owner's manual that in no way should an FFE be towed anyway but 4 wheels off the ground you can do it:

If you leave the ignition on and it in neutral you'll wear down the 12V battery pretty quickly. The image above is a test tow I did with my FFE. I never towed it like that more than about 5 miles...it works but the traction control isn't happy at all--took about 3 "key" cycles to clear all the faults it was reporting. Mechanically the FFE's rear wheels aren't any different from an ICE Focus's rear wheels (the ICE Focus can be towed on a dolly as far as you'd like). The only thing I could come up with is the extra weight in the back due to the battery. Nonetheless you are probably better off towing it on a flatbed trailer.

We now use that dolly to tow around my C-Max and my wife's Escape FWD. Haven't had any problems in over 2000 miles of towing.

 

[Omen87]

Thanks for the advice, everyone. Man I'm getting excited. Hopefully the car is still there when I can make it out there this upcoming weekend.

 

[Elektra]

I'm planning on starting out just charging with the 110v cord. My town is only 50,000 people so my commute back and forth to work is only 10 minutes or so. I shouldn't have to charge more than once a week unless I plug in every evening to keep the battery warm (gotta clean the garage out, ) I'll have to have a 220v outlet installed in the garage and then either get a TurboCord or another level 2 charger.

Don't get the turbocord, get this:https://store.clippercreek.com/all-products?product_id=121. It will charge faster and uses a dryer plug. I have the 25A version and use it when I drive to my parents' house 50 miles away.

 

[Omen87]

How long does it take to charge at 24 amps?

 

[triangles]

well 28A (6.6KW) is a little over 3.5 hours so 24A at 240V would probably be between 4-5 hours if your battery is completely dead. I'm guessing it would be closer to 4 hours though. I've charged mine at this rate but my battery wasn't completely dead and I didn't pay attention to the time it took to charge.

 

[Pearl]

TurboCord gives you the flexibility to use it on either a 120V or 240V circuit, where the clippercreek is strictly 240V.

 

[WattsUp]

TurboCord gives you the flexibility to use it on either a 120V or 240V circuit, where the clippercreek is strictly 240V.

Sure, but that flexibility already exists... the car comes with a 120V power cable. If you buy a powerful 240V cable (which the TurboCord is not) then you have the best of both.

 

[Omen87]

Sounds good. I'll see if I can make due with the car's charging cord, and then upgrade to an EVSE a bit later or if the car can't keep up in the winter.

Looks like I'll be going to pick it up on Saturday! It's a 2012 in oxford white with leather interior. About 33,000 miles. I talked to the dealership today. They said that it wasn't smoked in and the tires are in good shape. Apparently the boss likes it and has been driving it back and forth to work some days, haha. Gonna be heading out before the buttcrack of dawn since the car is about 6 hours away. They're a little few and far between here in the midwest.

 

[triangles]

Great to hear! FYI my FFE made it 370 miles on a dolly with no adverse issues. Not sure why ford says you have to tow 4 wheels off the ground. FYI there was a recall that was valid mostly only in states where there is snow. They basically install a splash shield in the drivers side rear wheel well over the high voltage battery connector. Apparently there was a problem with cracking/corroding plugs. Gotta keep that salt off that plug.

 

[Omen87]

Any idea what kind of battery degradation I should expect from a 4 year old FFE with 33,000 miles? I realize that it depends on a lot of factors, but am I looking at someone in the range of 5-15%? Or upwards of 30%?

 

[EVA]

On battery degradation, this may or may not be a fair comparison (the very short answer - I don't think you will see any).

My 2014 FFE has roughly 24,000 miles on it in three years of use. I'm not sure I can see any battery degradation at all. I guess if I spent a lot of time working at it, I could possibly see some. Comparing ancient charging records.

We just bought a 2013 FFE with 36,000 miles on it. Been driving it now for three days, the same commute as the 2014. There is virtually no difference in the range on the newer, higher mileage car. Honestly, can't tell the difference at all (other than the older car drives better, sounds better, and doesn't have any rattles).

Yes the scientific experiment would be to actually test both cars and see if either has battery degradation (however the group has figured out how to measure the battery capacity). But from where I sit, there's so little difference, it doesn't really matter.

Now the 2014 spent three winters in Chicago. The 2013 spent three years in California. Could that make a difference? I'd expect it would, but the two car batteries act exactly the same side by side in the same conditions.

By the way while I was doing some work on both cars, I discovered a small amount of surface rust on the seams of the frame of the 2014, Chicago car. The California car, not a hint of rust anywhere. Now I see why people want real live certified California cars. You guys don't hurt cars at all. And you don't have any potholes, so the cars hold together better. I bought a year older car with more miles and it runs better - go figure.

 

[Omen87]

Well that makes me feel even better! This car is a California car. CARFAX says it spent its life there until August of this year. Plus in the dealer's pictures it still has the California "Clean Air Vehicle" HOV lane stickers on it.

Also I'm considering getting a personalized tag for it. I get 7 characters in Kansas. The front runners right now are "LOL GAS" and "CHPTSLA". :lol:

 

[EVA]

That's great news Omen. I'm thinking you found a great buy and will be very happy with the car.

The HOV stickers are a major pain in the rear to remove (and man are they butt ugly). I tried peeling a corner, they separate into a clear plastic part and a white backing that stays on the car. I will have to hit it with a heat gun lightly, and then probably use goo gone to remove the adhesive. Not looking forward to that job.

 

[Omen87]

Thanks for the tips on the HOV stickers. At least the car is white and the stickers are white so if I can't get them off right away it's not terribly obvious.

 

[Robert123]

TurboCord gives you the flexibility to use it on either a 120V or 240V circuit, where the clippercreek is strictly 240V.

Sure, but that flexibility already exists... the car comes with a 120V power cable. If you buy a powerful 240V cable (which the TurboCord is not) then you have the best of both.

For anyone interested....

https://bsa-electronics.myshopify.com/collections/charging-stations/products/16a-3-84kw-portable-charging-station-25-length-evse-d25-16a

$300 and they are selling at $35 off that price for the rest of this year. I carry one in the trunk along with my Ford 120v charger. Use it when necessary on a NEMA 14-50 outlet at work. This unit is also 120 & 240v compatible, but it's 16 amps versus the Ford 12 amp when you are limited to 120v (understand it can't always be used on many outlets as it may overtax the circuit). Doesn't replace my higher amp 240v home station either, but it's really nice to have options with you. Build yourself an array of adaptors for your expected list of needs and your're ready for lotsa situlations.