Does mileage decrease if the car sits in the sun all day?

[Jasper7821]

I'm going to buy a FFE and been following this thread for a few weeks and will hopefully be getting mine soon. I have a 2012 BMW 328 and on the BMW forum everyone is giving me crap for going to a Ford electric car. Especially since I'm losing about $4k by doing it but I've calculated the next 19 months leasing both and the Focus will save me a bunch of money on gas, insurance, license and registration and the overage of miles I'll have on the BMW.

Anyways I have a 70 mile commute to work and back and in the summer it gets about 110 here. I have permission to use a 110 outlet t work if needed.
I test drove close to the communte I have and I when we got to the freeway I had the AC on and cruise control set to 75 and it was reading about 3 kilowatts. By the time we got back to the dealer we were actually +1 mile on the budget after brake regeneration on the streets.

So I know I can make it to work and back on a full charge. My question is, with the car sitting in the blazing sun for 9hrs will that have an effect on the battery.
Basically, whatever my miles say left when I get to work would they be less after work sitting in the desert heat all day?

 

[WattsUp]

I test drove close to the communte I have and I when we got to the freeway I had the AC on and cruise control set to 75 and it was reading about 3 kilowatts.

If you mean the energy meter was "at the 3 mark" (basically in the middle of its range) what it was actually telling you was that you were using 300 Wh/mile, or 0.3 kWh/mile.

The battery in the FFE holds about 19.5 kWh of usable energy. This means that, if you were to average of 300 Wh/mile all the time, you'll only be able to go 65 miles (19.5 kWh / 0.3 kWh/mile = 65 miles). By the numbers, the FFE can achieve its advertised 76 mile range only if you average around 250 Wh/mile, which assumes driving around 55-65 mph.

So, driving your 70-mile round trip commute at 75 mph, possibly with AC or heat running as well, is not quite realistic. It's not that far from realistic (after all, you were able to do it) but you might end up stranded some days if you're unable to charge at work for whatever reason, or have to deviate from your normal commute by any significant amount. But, if you can charge, even at Level 1 for, say, 8 hours at work, it is easily doable. (And, if you could somehow ever have Level 2 at work, then no problem at all. You'd be able to fully recharge in a few hours.)

As for losing significant charge in hot outdoor temps over the course of a workday, I would be surprised, but I have no personal experience. My FFE is always garaged, at home or work. Perhaps others can chime in?

 

[Jasper7821]

Thank you very much for the reply.
It would be great if no miles were lost sitting out in the hot sun for 9hrs.
As far as my 70 mile commute, if I have to drive at 65 that's fine. But it shouldn't matter anyways since I can use 110 while at work.

During my drive on the freeway it said I was -8 miles. But when I did the last 10 miles on streets it ended up being +1 miles.

So I agree that if my 70 mile commute was all freeway there's no way I would make it. But since I'm 50 miles highway and 20 miles street for the day, the street braking regeneration was the saving grace that I think I can get 80 miles out of a charge and maybe another 5-10 more if I drove with the AC off and the cruise control at 65.

I don't even own the car yet and only went on a distant drive only once my numbers may be 100% wrong but I hope they're not that far off.

 

[WattsUp]

Yeah, with a little extra Level 1 charging at work, it sounds like you'll be okay.

And, you are right, part-time driving on "surface" streets and brake regen helps, but regen isn't really "extra" energy (unless you're going downhill). Regen only converts the kinetic energy of the car, which was originally created by taking energy out of the battery, back into stored electricity, rather than just waste it. On most trips of even several tens of miles, the miles from regen are usually pretty small... 3 miles, 5 miles. So, while it helps, it doesn't "dramatically" extend range. What does extend range is reducing speed.

Btw, the average Wh/mile (shown in the Trip view) incorporates the savings from regen. Rather than count on regen miles explicitly, it's just simpler to calculate the expected range by dividing the usable battery capacity by average Wh/mile you intend to drive at. If you know what it takes to drive at 250 Wh/mile, including the effects of regen, and sometimes driving faster, sometimes slower, then you can pretty much count on 76 miles of range (or whatever you are shooting for).

Mainly I was just trying to point out that driving at speeds like 75 mph may not realistic if you need to take the car to the edge of its range. But, sounds like you're in good shape.

 

[Jasper7821]

Yeah, with a little extra Level 1 charging at work, it sounds like you'll be okay.

And, you are right, part-time driving on "surface" streets and brake regen helps, but regen isn't really "extra" energy (unless you're going downhill). Regen only converts the kinetic energy of the car, which was originally created by taking energy out of the battery, back into stored electricity, rather than just waste it. On most trips of even several tens of miles, the miles from regen are usually pretty small... 3 miles, 5 miles. So, while it helps, it doesn't "dramatically" extend range. What does extend range is reducing speed.

Btw, the average Wh/mile (shown in the Trip view) incorporates the savings from regen. Rather than count on regen miles explicitly, it's just simpler to calculate the expected range by dividing the usable battery capacity by average Wh/mile you intend to drive at. If you know what it takes to drive at 250 Wh/mile, including the effects of regen, and sometimes driving faster, sometimes slower, then you can pretty much count on 76 miles of range (or whatever you are shooting for).

Mainly I was just trying to point out that driving at speeds like 75 mph may not realistic if you need to take the car to the edge of its range. But, sounds like you're in good shape.

Thanks, I usually have my cruise control set to 80 (speed limit here is 75 and the 328 at 80 is really going 77-78)
I pretty much sold my $47,000 10 month old BMW 328 and losing $5k on it just because I don't like the car anymore and am deadset on the Focus.
Today I drove to work with the cruise control set to 70 and it wasn't that bad. So I think even if I had to drive at 70 to make it to work and back with 5 miles or so to spare I'm totally fine with it.

 

[Fluke]

Remember that you should be factoring in a healthy amount of lithium ion battery degradation over time. The range that you get in the first year or two is going to be the car's high point (barring changes in terrain, technique or average temperature).

 

[Jasper7821]

Remember that you should be factoring in a healthy amount of lithium ion battery degradation over time. The range that you get in the first year or two is going to be the car's high point (barring changes in terrain, technique or average temperature).

I read somewhere that the warranty is for 10 years and 80% capacity so I was hoping that over the lease term I wouldn't lose much at all.

 

[Fluke]

Ford's warranty on the battery is for 8 years or 100k miles, similar to other current electric cars on the market. However, unlike Chevy (and now Nissan) Ford has no capacity loss warranty. In fact, the 2012 warranty states:

"Note: Lithium-Ion Battery Gradual Capacity Loss
The Lithium-ion battery (EV battery) will experience gradual capacity loss with time and use (similar to all lithium-ion batteries), which is considered normal wear and tear. Loss of battery capacity due to or resulting from gradual capacity loss is NOT covered under the New Vehicle Limited Warranty. See your Owner’s Manual for important tips on how to maximize the life and capacity of the Lithium-ion battery."

Every curve of Li-Ion battery degradation I have seen shows the most significant degradation occurring in the first two years and then the curve flattens out greatly from there to end of life.

Fords BEV Focus, seems to be the quivalent of Ford sticking its little toe in the water to see if it likes the temperature. They are clearly trying to limit their risk in the market.

 

[vetboy45]

First of all let me congratulate you on becoming an EV owner. What made you a convert? I know that I would never want to go back to an ICE vehicle for a number of reasons and I've seen the same sentiment from a lot of EV owners. As for the commute, you should easily be fine as long as you plug in at work. If you can't, it might be cutting it awfully close. I know that some Leaf owners were having some real trouble with the heat but their batteries are air cooled where the Focus has liquid cooled batteries. Let us know how it's going.

 

[jstack6]

I'm in the Phoenix area. The front dash is black with a large very slanted windshield. It's like a solar over (I have 3) . I ordered a light color dashmate covering for the dash and that should reduce the heat a lot !

There is also window tinting. They even allow a light grade for the windshield and I may get that next. Ceramic window coverings are the lightest coloring and reduce the most heat Infra Red IR!

 

[Jasper7821]

First of all let me congratulate you on becoming an EV owner. What made you a convert? I know that I would never want to go back to an ICE vehicle for a number of reasons and I've seen the same sentiment from a lot of EV owners. As for the commute, you should easily be fine as long as you plug in at work. If you can't, it might be cutting it awfully close. I know that some Leaf owners were having some real trouble with the heat but their batteries are air cooled where the Focus has liquid cooled batteries. Let us know how it's going.

Thanks, I absolutely love this car. I've always wanted an electric and almost put the $4,500 deposit down for the Tesla Model S 6yrs ago.
I just hate all the money spent on fuel and my BMW even got a little over 30mpg.
I've driven the car to work most of last week since I got the car Tuesday evening.
It will totally make it to work and back with plenty of battery left over. And it sits in the sun all day in well over 100 degree temps.
When I got home on Friday I still had 15 miles left.
I think I'm driving this thing so good that my range keeps going up. The first day it said 75 after charge and now this morning it said 111. But it down quick to 99 just a few miles later.
But I drove it all around town yesterday and drove 50 miles and left the house with 89 miles and got home with 68.
The regeneration is absolutely incredible.

And when just playing with a friend in the car who was saying electric cars are piles of crap and have no power at all I floored it and the thing totally burned out. And from 30-40 and flooring it totally scoots pretty darn good and my friend now wants one.

I Am so happy with this thing, I was worried at first with the range of 76 miles getting to work and back but after learning that regeneration can increase mileage a ton, I have no worries at all anymore.

 

[vetboy45]

Nice! I'm jealous. Here in the Seattle area there are too many hills to get that kind of mileage. Must be nice. If you ever want to convert someone into an electric car lover, take them on a test drive of a Tesla. I also have a Model S and have yet to give a ride to someone where they weren't blown away by it.

 

[Jasper7821]

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