My 2013 FFE died while I was driving it at the end of April. As of today I am on the 50th day of my car being in the shop. On day 30, I sent a notice to ford of defective car. After a week, rather than pursuing arbitration, I decided to use the BBB auto line. I submitted a complete package that I put together with emails, driving log, battery health screenshots, telephone log, etc. it was about a 1/2 inch thick. I have received notification that Ford is going to buy back my car which is a lease that I have had for one year. I had two years left on the lease. The car had given me the stop safely now three times but the third time was while I was driving and gave me no advance notice before losing all electric power. It could have been a terrible situation which thankfully it was not. Car has continued to shut down on technician and has all kinds of software codes. To say that I am disappointed is an understatement. I truly loved this car and it was so much fun to drive. I am posting this so you out there who have experienced this know that I have been successful in a buyback with the BBB auto line with not having to go to arbitration. I didn't ask for much other than to use their calculation for buyback and lease to be voided. I am waiting for my letter from ford which should be 100% completed in 30 days from BBB opening my case. The SSN is an ongoing issue and luckily I was able to declare mine a lemon and be released from lease. Sad about my situation but happy that I do not have to continue paying for a car that doesn't work.
Car being bought back by Ford
- Thread starter taxchick1
- Start date
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jmueller065
Well-known member
The big question is: What will you be replacing it with? Were the problems you had enough to sour you on getting another one, another Ford, etc.?
(When I read of these I often ask myself what would I do, and how upset would I be? Would I take the risk of getting a simple replacement, go with something else, or simply switch to another brand? I don't think I have an answer to that question for myself...)
(When I read of these I often ask myself what would I do, and how upset would I be? Would I take the risk of getting a simple replacement, go with something else, or simply switch to another brand? I don't think I have an answer to that question for myself...)
I was really upset after a week with FFE stuck in the shop. I have a Toyota sequoia so I was driving that and that was the worst bc I was making a payment and guzzling gas. My husband has a 2014 ford fusion energi and loves it. He wanted me to replace it with a cmax energi which we both like. I drove it, reminded me of my FFE when in EV mode but honestly, I was not so much sour as scared of it leaving me in the middle of a road and with my two young kids. So, to answer your question, I am purchasing a prius c hybrid. I am looking only for a commuting car, not all the whistles and bells of the FFE. Just something that will get good gas mileage. My husband understands that I can't go back to a ford. I have had Toyotas and nissans my entire life and when I decided to change to a ford, I was disappointed. After 50 days of being without my FFE, I just can't be upset anymore. Ford did the right thing by buying it back so although it is a long process, I can't be upset bc they did the right thing. I just hope that our fusion energi continues to run perfectly and I pick up my new car in 2 weeks.
I think if it happened to me, I'd want a buy back too. After 50 days in the shop, they obviously don't know what is wrong or what caused the issue. If they got it working again, I wouldn't trust it. But honestly, I wouldn't write this off as a design issue.
As for a replacement, I think that in this predicament, I'd be 50/50. Although I understand that any make and model of vehicle has probably been a lemon at one time or another, the fact that it just stopped after a year in use would give me reason to avoid. When I had the SSN issue last November, a week before the official fix went out, I found myself debating the issue in my head. What really caught my attention was that when they returned the car to me (before the fix was released), they gave no explanation for the SSN (although I figured they wouldn't be able to). They likely checked for TSB's (Technical Service Bulletins), but their wasn't anything listed yet.
So yeah, I understand....but I really like my FFE.
As for a replacement, I think that in this predicament, I'd be 50/50. Although I understand that any make and model of vehicle has probably been a lemon at one time or another, the fact that it just stopped after a year in use would give me reason to avoid. When I had the SSN issue last November, a week before the official fix went out, I found myself debating the issue in my head. What really caught my attention was that when they returned the car to me (before the fix was released), they gave no explanation for the SSN (although I figured they wouldn't be able to). They likely checked for TSB's (Technical Service Bulletins), but their wasn't anything listed yet.
So yeah, I understand....but I really like my FFE.
I've had a similar situation where the engine just dies.
my ford Excursion has a diesel in it and there is a little item called a cam position sensor.
It's just a little hall effect sensor and if it dies the engine dies. Nothing you can do about it.
It happened to me at an intersection and there I sat.
Good thing I was not on the highway when it happened.
The sensor was replaced under warranty and worked ok until ford came out with a recall and its interesting to note that the sensor used in the recall was different from the one used in my repair. I'm guessing it was the same as the original.
It's worked great since and the truck is 14 years old now.
Its a scary thought to have your source of power die on you with no recourse to get re-started other than to call for assistance.
Worse yet if your in a bad driving situation when it happens.
I wonder what ever happened to "limp Mode"
Zurc.
my ford Excursion has a diesel in it and there is a little item called a cam position sensor.
It's just a little hall effect sensor and if it dies the engine dies. Nothing you can do about it.
It happened to me at an intersection and there I sat.
Good thing I was not on the highway when it happened.
The sensor was replaced under warranty and worked ok until ford came out with a recall and its interesting to note that the sensor used in the recall was different from the one used in my repair. I'm guessing it was the same as the original.
It's worked great since and the truck is 14 years old now.
Its a scary thought to have your source of power die on you with no recourse to get re-started other than to call for assistance.
Worse yet if your in a bad driving situation when it happens.
I wonder what ever happened to "limp Mode"
Zurc.
jmueller065
Well-known member
Sitting dead at an intersection in an Excursion is quite a bit different experience than sitting dead at an intersection in a Focus!Zurc said:
(In the Excursion you can taunt the other drivers: "Go ahead, hit me! I dare you!" not the same in a Focus...)
cabbychris
New member
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2014
- Messages
- 2
Taxchick1, I wish I had your same BBB arbitrator...
I had 48 days in the shop and 2 SSN's over my first 12 months of 2012 FFE ownership. I was done with the FFE - fun while it lasted, but I need a car in my driveway, not in the shop. To top things off my local dealer closed a few months ago.
I live in Virginia, and the Lemon Law here seems cut and dry: 30 days out of service qualifies it for action, among other things. Piece of cake, right?
The state recommends arbitration through BBB Autoline before filing a Lemon Law suit. OK, I file with BBB. I too had stacks of documentation, photos of the car on the lift at the dealer while they replaced low and high voltage harnesses and HVAC plumbing and rebuilt both high voltage batteries, among other things - itself a 35 day shop visit during which time it was clear they had no understanding of what the problem was. I didn't have a driving log or emails - maybe I should have added that
After much back and forth following the BBB steps, I finally got to the arbitration meeting. The Ford rep was on the phone. It was clear I had plenty of documentation to make my case (it was also surprisingly clear how little information Ford has - basically only dates that recall services are performed). The arbitrator was afraid to drive my car during the inspection and said nearly so much in the hearing. He just did a visual walk around. Of course with ~8000 miles, the car was in like-new condition, except for the grease stains where the service techs pulled apart the interior to replace the batteries and harness.
As we wrapped up the discussion, I concluded my simple statement: in VA, 30 days out of service makes a lemon. I am seeking a buyback from Ford. By now the Ford rep sounded backed into a corner, then she pounced: "sir, we are arbitrating against the BBB Program Guide, not state laws".
Oh.
I was pissed. While I carefully read through BBB's nicely put together documentation for how to go through an arbitration meeting, what to expect, and even their mock arbitration videos, I never found what their definition of a Lemon was. After my meeting I was so pissed I never looked into it further. If you do Autoline arbitration, I encourage you to read their program book very carefully.
If I had known my own state's Lemon Law would have literally no effect on the arbitration, I wouldn't have wasted my time with the BBB process whatsoever. Totally ridiculous, and a keen reminder that BBB is funded by businesses, not consumers. :evil:
Interestingly about a week or so after my hearing, BBB called to set up another inspection of the vehicle. Some guy came and drove it for 10 miles and filed a report. I could have told them to save the effort; my concern wasn't with the car current performance, it was with the lost value for all the time at the dealer. Maybe I should have set up the appointment so the inspector came to my home while the car was in the shop!
By the time the ruling arrived, I wasn't at all surprised: BBB ruled with Ford, and I get nothing.
This was back in April. So I gave up for the time being. The effort consumed enough of my spare time, so we went back to driving the FFE around town. We still call her "Buzzy".
Then, in the past 3 weeks, my Siemens VersiCharge won't do anything but show a fault. I resorted to the car's own 110 charger for a couple days (which is a joke, but that's been covered elsewhere), and then that stops working. With a 12 mile budget showing on a 9 mile trip to the dealer, I stop in a parking lot to charge on a public charger, and it reports "No Plug Detected". So, off to Ford we go.
Today I hear that there was a 'problem with the connector', without any other detail. I am supposed to get Buzzy back tomorrow.
4 more days without the FFE, and I've renewed my interest in Lemoning the car. This time I need lawyer.
I don't mean to come across as a hater. I've lurked here for a long time and I like the car. I'm glad that others have had much better luck than me. My FFE reminds me of the old iPhone on AT&T days - all my friends were showing off their cool shiny gadgets, and I would ask "yeah, but does your phone reliably make a call?"... well, no, in fact the AT&T network was terrible and the iPhone themselves had antenna issues. Usefulness and value were secondary to the gee-whiz factor.
Taxchick1, what state do you live in?
I had 48 days in the shop and 2 SSN's over my first 12 months of 2012 FFE ownership. I was done with the FFE - fun while it lasted, but I need a car in my driveway, not in the shop. To top things off my local dealer closed a few months ago.
I live in Virginia, and the Lemon Law here seems cut and dry: 30 days out of service qualifies it for action, among other things. Piece of cake, right?
The state recommends arbitration through BBB Autoline before filing a Lemon Law suit. OK, I file with BBB. I too had stacks of documentation, photos of the car on the lift at the dealer while they replaced low and high voltage harnesses and HVAC plumbing and rebuilt both high voltage batteries, among other things - itself a 35 day shop visit during which time it was clear they had no understanding of what the problem was. I didn't have a driving log or emails - maybe I should have added that
After much back and forth following the BBB steps, I finally got to the arbitration meeting. The Ford rep was on the phone. It was clear I had plenty of documentation to make my case (it was also surprisingly clear how little information Ford has - basically only dates that recall services are performed). The arbitrator was afraid to drive my car during the inspection and said nearly so much in the hearing. He just did a visual walk around. Of course with ~8000 miles, the car was in like-new condition, except for the grease stains where the service techs pulled apart the interior to replace the batteries and harness.
As we wrapped up the discussion, I concluded my simple statement: in VA, 30 days out of service makes a lemon. I am seeking a buyback from Ford. By now the Ford rep sounded backed into a corner, then she pounced: "sir, we are arbitrating against the BBB Program Guide, not state laws".
Oh.
I was pissed. While I carefully read through BBB's nicely put together documentation for how to go through an arbitration meeting, what to expect, and even their mock arbitration videos, I never found what their definition of a Lemon was. After my meeting I was so pissed I never looked into it further. If you do Autoline arbitration, I encourage you to read their program book very carefully.
If I had known my own state's Lemon Law would have literally no effect on the arbitration, I wouldn't have wasted my time with the BBB process whatsoever. Totally ridiculous, and a keen reminder that BBB is funded by businesses, not consumers. :evil:
Interestingly about a week or so after my hearing, BBB called to set up another inspection of the vehicle. Some guy came and drove it for 10 miles and filed a report. I could have told them to save the effort; my concern wasn't with the car current performance, it was with the lost value for all the time at the dealer. Maybe I should have set up the appointment so the inspector came to my home while the car was in the shop!
By the time the ruling arrived, I wasn't at all surprised: BBB ruled with Ford, and I get nothing.
This was back in April. So I gave up for the time being. The effort consumed enough of my spare time, so we went back to driving the FFE around town. We still call her "Buzzy".
Then, in the past 3 weeks, my Siemens VersiCharge won't do anything but show a fault. I resorted to the car's own 110 charger for a couple days (which is a joke, but that's been covered elsewhere), and then that stops working. With a 12 mile budget showing on a 9 mile trip to the dealer, I stop in a parking lot to charge on a public charger, and it reports "No Plug Detected". So, off to Ford we go.
Today I hear that there was a 'problem with the connector', without any other detail. I am supposed to get Buzzy back tomorrow.
4 more days without the FFE, and I've renewed my interest in Lemoning the car. This time I need lawyer.
I don't mean to come across as a hater. I've lurked here for a long time and I like the car. I'm glad that others have had much better luck than me. My FFE reminds me of the old iPhone on AT&T days - all my friends were showing off their cool shiny gadgets, and I would ask "yeah, but does your phone reliably make a call?"... well, no, in fact the AT&T network was terrible and the iPhone themselves had antenna issues. Usefulness and value were secondary to the gee-whiz factor.
Taxchick1, what state do you live in?
I live in Hawaii but I did not do anything through my state lemon law. I used a form letter on day 30 to put ford on notice of severe defect that could cause bodily injury or death. Second, I waited until I got the certified receipt that ford had received it. While waiting, I researched how these cases go. I decided to do the extra step and go through the bbb. I sent all my paperwork to Arlington and my case handler was in FL. Nothing happened here in HI. I had work orders, screen shots, color copies of my car on the lift. All the emails back and forth for myself to service dept plus a description of all the work the tech had done from the day I had it towed up to the present. I had a screen shot of its battery health plus printouts of the fact that it had only been driven a couple of times for test drives and email documentation that it had died each time with more codes coming up each time. As of today, I got my buyback letter and accepted. I have known for almost two weeks that they had settled the case but took this long to get letter to me. It is pennies on the dollar but to know that I don't have to continue a lease payment for two more years was settlement enough for us. I hate that you are going through this. If I can do anything to help, let me know. I am just so glad it is over...it's been two months now and car is still dead. I pick up my prius Saturday. I wish you all the luck..there are lawyers out there that will take the case and charge you only if you win...I would have gone that route if I lost the settlement. Good luck...you deserve to get out of your car situation.
I got a buy back on our first Nissan LEAF. It lost 2 BARS, about 20% in 2 years. I sent Nissan a letter and opened a BBB case. That was all it took. Nissan was so nice I lease3d a 2013 and when that is up I will lease a 2015 or 16. On a lease you can't lose and even get to buy the car if you like it.
Nissan now has the improved Heat Tolerant lizard battery. That could be super here in Phoenix heat. They also have 2 or 3 ranges coming in 2016. They just may be best car even compared to Tesla by 2016. We will see and we all win. All automakers are getting better and batteries are coming down in price as charging gets faster and battery life get better. Even heat pumps for heat or cooling are getting more efficient. All vehicles can use that.
Nissan now has the improved Heat Tolerant lizard battery. That could be super here in Phoenix heat. They also have 2 or 3 ranges coming in 2016. They just may be best car even compared to Tesla by 2016. We will see and we all win. All automakers are getting better and batteries are coming down in price as charging gets faster and battery life get better. Even heat pumps for heat or cooling are getting more efficient. All vehicles can use that.
unplugged
Well-known member
I absolutely would NOT trust on Nissan's word alone that the new battery chemistry will withstand excessive heat. Until Nissan provides more information on the "Heat Tolerant Battery", I would remain skeptical. After all Nissan did sell a "Not So Heat Tolerant Battery" for quite some time.jstack6 said:
EVA
Well-known member
jstack6 said:
Guess everybody is allowed to have their opinion. Nissan Leaf being the best car in 2016? Is Nissan completely redesigning the Leaf for 2016? Wow, that would take some pretty amazing changes to get them at the best car by that date.
In my mind, the Leaf would have to get better than the BMW i3, then the FFE, and then they might tackle Tesla. Wow that's a lot of good cars to leap frog in one model year.
unplugged
Well-known member
In fact, on one of the mainstream websites, Green Car Reports, a comment was made that Nissan was supposedly using the same formulation of batteries that LG already uses in the Volt and FFE. This change doesn't appear to be Earth-shattering until Nissan comes forward with real world testing and a detailed description of the battery formulation.Zurc said:
michael
Well-known member
Prof. Jeff Dahn has developed a test procedure which, he claims, can identify in a very short period which batteries will or won't have the kind of problem that Leaf batteries have demonstrated. He also says that minor changes in battery chemistry (i.e. additives) have a substantial effect on the battery's risk of this problem.
So it's quite possible that Nissan has addressed the battery life problem, but it would also be easy for them to provide test data that substantiates their claim. I would be reluctant to accept "trust me, it's fixed..."
So it's quite possible that Nissan has addressed the battery life problem, but it would also be easy for them to provide test data that substantiates their claim. I would be reluctant to accept "trust me, it's fixed..."
My first focus died in a similar way about two months after taking possession (Jan 2014). My dealer was on it and Ford was too. I wound up with a replacement car within 2 or 3 weeks of the first one dying. Another Tuxedo black FFE. I love the car and my poor BMW 335i Sport has been sitting in the garage for months!
