Anyone driving in L for extended periods seeing better range

[WattsUp]

Gotcha. I feel like this is similar to the 100% regen actually meaning ~60% regen.

Yeah, it's probably something like that.

With the FFE, I have been having a harder time detecting it, due in part to the friction brakes only kicking in for the actual stop (as you explained).

Yes, that is, when you achieve a fairly high brake score.

The FFE has a much larger motor, and is capable of correspondingly larger amounts of resistance for braking. In the Fusion, they probably have to switch over to the mechanical brakes much earlier.

(Edit: jmueller065's comments later in this thread about charging limits probably also apply here. The Fusion is probably just not as capable of "absorbing" the energy its motor could produce, and so regeneration cuts into normal braking sooner for that reason as well.)

In general, I think the FFE's "illusion" via the brake pedal of continuous braking action, even when it does switch over to the mechanical brakes, is quite seamless. They've really made it feel like a conventional car.

That means I can be a little more liberal with the brakes when coming to a stop, instead of trying to coast all the way in L since I assumed any further braking while in L would be the friction brakes.

Yes, you'll eventually get a feel for the strongest braking you can do without upsetting the Brake Coach. Anything in the 90%'s is pretty good.

It tend to think of the Brake Coach scores like this: If I could come to a full stop with a score of 100%, then I used no mechanical braking to speak of. If I came to a stop with 80%, then 20% of the energy was "wasted" via mechanical friction. Likewise for other scores. That may not be technically correct (who knows what the algorithm for the scoring is), but that is my mental model.

I wish there were a "not dumbed down" version of the manual, it's starting to make me feel stupid. :mrgreen:

No worries, we make up for it with this forum.

 

[NightHawk]

I am right in assuming the FFE should get less brake pad wear than a typical ICE vehicle due to the use of regenerative braking reducing the friction brake use?

 

[WattsUp]

I am right in assuming the FFE should get less brake pad wear than a typical ICE vehicle due to the use of regenerative braking reducing the friction brake use?

Exactly.

If you drive conservatively to maximize range (smooth acceleration, gradual stops, etc.), the mechanical brakes will see a fraction of the usage the brakes on an ICE car would see. Most of your braking will be done by the motor acting as a generator ("regenerative braking").

The factory brake pads on the FFE should be good for at least 100K miles, if not a lot more... and will probably last the lifetime of the car. You'll also notice that no "brake dust" accumulates on the FFE's wheels. Stays so clean.

Tell that to your ICE friends going in for their third brake job before hitting 100K miles on their FossilMobile 3000 Touring Edition.

 

[jmueller065]

Going back to the regen discussion for a second (no I'm not going to argue anything).
If you think of it this way it makes a little bit more sense:
In theory the amount of "engine braking" (or regen) the electric motor can do would be as much as the driving it can do. Think about how fast the car can accelerate, the motor should be able to decelerate it close to the same rate (only negative). Thus if you had maximum regen/deceleration you'd be decelerating quite quickly.

 

[hybridbear]

Going back to the regen discussion for a second (no I'm not going to argue anything).
If you think of it this way it makes a little bit more sense:
In theory the amount of "engine braking" (or regen) the electric motor can do would be as much as the driving it can do. Think about how fast the car can accelerate, the motor should be able to decelerate it close to the same rate (only negative). Thus if you had maximum regen/deceleration you'd be decelerating quite quickly.

Except for the battery charge limits. The car likely allows you to discharge the battery faster than you can charge it. For example, the Fusion Energi has a 35 kW max charge rate & a 65 kW max discharge rate. The Fusion Hybrid is 35 kW max charge & discharge. That means that the Fusion Energi electric traction motor can consume up to 65 kW when accelerating but can only regen up to 35 kW into the HVB before the brake pads kick in. If only Torque Pro would work with the Focus Electric and I'd be able to tell you all this data about the Focus too!! Grrrr Ford... :roll: :evil:

 

[jmueller065]

Someone around here said that the FFE could charge via regen up to 60kW!

 

[WattsUp]

Think about how fast the car can accelerate, the motor should be able to decelerate it close to the same rate (only negative). Thus if you had maximum regen/deceleration you'd be decelerating quite quickly.

Yes, that's how I conceptualize it as well.

Clearly, the car's D and L regeneration rates, and the regeneration applied during braking, are highly tuned, quite subdued versions of what the motor would actually be capable of doing (in terms of slowing the car).

 

[WattsUp]

Except for the battery charge limits. The car likely allows you to discharge the battery faster than you can charge it.

That's a good point, regeneration must be limited (matched) to what the battery charging system can accept. That's another reason why, in some cars, the braking from regeneration is limited to a certain degree before the pads engage.

Fortunately, with the FFE, the range of "allowable" regeneration seems to cover most reasonable braking scenarios, so we get regeneration for almost the entire application of the "brakes", until the pads engage at the very end.