Mt Hamilton Hill climb - June 7th San Jose, CA - w/ PHOTOS

[WattsUp]

Thanks for the pics, very cool. Are the two white FFEs both the same white? Are they Oxford or Platinum?

One of each.

 

[JimB_FFE]

 

[WattsUp]

Note the thick smog floating above the valley floor in the background, from the ICE masses living in their own filth.

(Oh wait, I live there. Damn.)

 

[unplugged]

Note the thick smog floating above the valley floor in the background, from the ICE masses living in their own filth

Hold on there a minute, WattsUp. I would be the first to complain about smog and ICE vehicle exhaust, but what you see in that photo isn't smog, it's haze. As someone who grew up in the yellow smog of LA, I know smog when I see it. Haze is just a clear humidity interfering with visibility. Once you add pollutants to it, it turns a sickly, yellow-brown tint. Back in the 70's, one could literally smell the basin of smog as one landed at LAX.

 

[WattsUp]

Note the thick smog floating above the valley floor in the background, from the ICE masses living in their own filth

Hold on there a minute, WattsUp. I would be the first to complain about smog and ICE vehicle exhaust, but what you see in that photo isn't smog, it's haze. As someone who grew up in the yellow smog of LA, I know smog when I see it. Haze is just a clear humidity interfering with visibility. Once you add pollutants to it, it turns a sickly, yellow-brown tint. Back in the 70's, one could literally smell the basin of smog as one landed at LAX.

Well, the photo doesn't do it "justice". Perhaps SV smog can't compete with LA smog, but what you see in the photo really looked like smog in person, from up there on Mt. Hamilton. It was clearly brown and yucky looking... not just some friendly natural haze.

 

[Zurc]

All the more reason for more people to be driving EV's.
I had a chat with a sales guy on the phone one day and he was totally unaware of the advantages of electric over gas just in terms of cost.
So now I have him thinking

Zurc

 

[JimB_FFE]

Especially if you factor transportation (car) into your household energy use. We worry about caulking, weatherstripping, dual pane windows, LED lighting, insulating, while ignoring the elephant in the garage.

For example:
My household electricity use is about 365 kWh a month without the EV, 665 with. Seems bad until you look at the energy use and waste of that gas car you were driving.

I drive 1130 miles each month.

Driving a 30 MPG gas car consumed the equivalent of 1,381 kWh ($150) a month.

Here's the math. I hope I did it right.
1130 miles / 30 MPG = 37.7 gallons X 36.7 kWh = 1381 kWh which cost me $150.

Switch to EV:
1130 miles / 3.8 MPkWh = 300 kWh which cost me (at $.115 / kWh) $34.50.

So yeah, I've gotten really smart people telling me "Your electric bill must be murder." completely forgetting I've just erased a $150 a month in gas.

 

[WattsUp]

1130 miles / 30 MPG = 37.7 gallons X 36.7 kWh = 1381 kWh which cost me $150.

Not sure why you're incorporating kWh into your gasoline cost calculation. Why not just multiply 37.7 by the average price for a gallon of gas?

Perhaps this is what you did, since if we assume $4/gallon, 37.7 gallons comes out to about $150. Still, I'm not sure why the kWh numbers are in the gasoline computation.

 

[JimB_FFE]

I thought that putting a kWh equivalent number on the car consumption would allow an apples to apples comparison of the impact of transportation on household energy use.

By switching to an EV, I cut household consumption by 1082 kWh per month, 35.6 kWh per day, or about 1.5 kWh per hour.

That's like leaving a 1500 watt heater on, full blast, outside, running continuously.

There's so much focus on cost savings. I thought the kWh numbers would provide some energy consumption context.

 

[hybridbear]

I thought that putting a kWh equivalent number on the car consumption would allow an apples to apples comparison of the impact of transportation on household energy use.

By switching to an EV, I cut household consumption by 1082 kWh per month, 35.6 kWh per day, or about 1.5 kWh per hour.

That's like leaving a 1500 watt heater on, full blast, outside, running continuously.

There's so much focus on cost savings. I thought the kWh numbers would provide some energy consumption context.

I like your energy consumption context. It is a great way to show the complete savings by having an EV. It's not just dollars, it's energy you're saving. And because you're using less energy for transportation you thus have lower costs.

This is true due to the efficiency of electric motors. 1 gallon of gasoline contains 33.7 kWh of electricity (or at least that's the number used by the EPA & manufacturers to compute MPGe of BEVs & PHEVs). One gallon of gas costs about $3.50 right now in Minneapolis. 33.7 kWh of electricity would cost $3.71 based on our average electric year-round rate of $0.11/kWh. Electricity is not really cheaper than gasoline in terms of the cost per a specific unit of energy. The monetary savings from electric vehicles stem from the fact that they use much less energy to operate than a traditional vehicle because electric motors are much more efficient. That's why hybrids get better MPG, they use the gas engine when it's most efficient and an electric motor when it is most efficient to reduce overall energy consumption.

 

[jmueller065]

That's why hybrids get better MPG, they use the gas engine when it's most efficient and an electric motor when it is most efficient to reduce overall energy consumption.

Well sort of: Since a hybrid doesn't have any external source of electricity for the electric motor this statement isn't quite true.

Hybrids are more efficient because they attempt to make use of wasted energy. Specifically the energy wasted during braking and when sitting at a light.

With a hybrid the energy captured during braking is reused during acceleration to reduce the amount required of the gas engine. In addition there is some extra savings by being able to turn off the gas engine when the vehicle is not in motion.

 

[hybridbear]

That's why hybrids get better MPG, they use the gas engine when it's most efficient and an electric motor when it is most efficient to reduce overall energy consumption.

Well sort of: Since a hybrid doesn't have any external source of electricity for the electric motor this statement isn't quite true.

Hybrids are more efficient because they attempt to make use of wasted energy. Specifically the energy wasted during braking and when sitting at a light.

With a hybrid the energy captured during braking is reused during acceleration to reduce the amount required of the gas engine. In addition there is some extra savings by being able to turn off the gas engine when the vehicle is not in motion.

Your statement above is not correct for hybrids other than the Prius. The Prius rarely uses the generator motor to pace a load on the ICE, instead relying much more on regen braking. The MPG gains from regen braking are much less in the Ford hybrids. The Fusion Hybrid consistently uses the generator to place a load on the ICE to get it operating in a more efficient BSFC region. This is a big part of why it is so efficient. ICEs operate most efficiently at a fairly high load. The FFH usually uses the generator to place about a 10 kW load on the ICE to make it more efficient.

 

[unplugged]

The Fusion Hybrid consistently uses the generator to place a load on the ICE to get it operating in a more efficient BSFC region. This is a big part of why it is so efficient. ICEs operate most efficiently at a fairly high load. The FFH usually uses the generator to place about a 10 kW load on the ICE to make it more efficient.

Very interesting. I didn't realize that the Ford hybrid generator placed a load on the engine. Makes sense. In fact, I often wondered why Prius didn't charge the hybrid battery at all during freeway driving.

 

[michael]

That's an interesting point. An automated implementation of the "pulse and glide" method. Except that the extra energy is stored in the battery and the speed remains constant rather than storing the energy in kinetic motion.

 

[hybridbear]

The Fusion Hybrid consistently uses the generator to place a load on the ICE to get it operating in a more efficient BSFC region. This is a big part of why it is so efficient. ICEs operate most efficiently at a fairly high load. The FFH usually uses the generator to place about a 10 kW load on the ICE to make it more efficient.

Very interesting. I didn't realize that the Ford hybrid generator placed a load on the engine. Makes sense. In fact, I often wondered why Prius didn't charge the hybrid battery at all during freeway driving.

The reason for the way the Prius behaves is that its ICE operates in its best BSFC zone at a much lower power demand, less than 10 kW. The FFH ICE seems to prefer being loaded to 15-30 kW to operate in its most efficient BSFC region. The Ford & Toyota designs are very similar but very different at the same time.

Check out this thread at the Fusion Hybrid Forum for more info. It has links to a thread on the Energi Forum where an Energi owner has started creating a BSFC map for the 2.0L Atkinson ICE that Ford uses.

 

[WattsUp]

The reason for the way the Prius behaves is that its ICE operates in its best BSFC zone at a much lower power demand

For those following along, BSFC = Brake Specific Fuel Consumption

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brake_specific_fuel_consumption

 

[EVA]

Great pictures. I like how you all parked the cars so carefully.

 

[WattsUp]

Some more photos, including a few wide panoramas (click images to open larger size, then click again for even larger).

Shades of electric:


Three out of four FFEs agree, it's cool to be observed at an observatory:


Now observe the FFEs from the back:


Surveying the view of Silicon Valley that 10 kWh bought us:


Turned around 180 degrees, looking back at the main observatory building:

 

[bb6lude]

Missed this (wouldn't have had enough of a charge to make it up and back!), but nice to see FFE owners getting together.

 

[JimB_FFE]

I came from Palo Alto and would not have made it either except I was able to charge a bit at Reid Hillview Airport as we chatted, comparing notes on upgrades and customizations. Made it back to Palo Alto with plenty to spare.