Does charging at 6.6kw v/s 5kw degrade the battery over time

[Jasper7821]

I'm debating on which charger to get. I was looking at the GE 7.2 and Levitron 7.2.
The GE is $850 but now there's sales tax on Amazon.

I found Clipper Creek has one that's only $598 with no tax an only $3.00 shipping.

If I'm adding this correctly it seems Ford is letting you use about 80% of the 23kw and seems like people charging from zero to full are putting in 19kw.
So if charging with a 7.2 it would charge at the chargers max rate of 6.6 and would it be 2.78hrs to charge?
And with the Clipper Creek at 5kw would it take 3.8hrs to charge?

I fly large radio control helicopters and have used up to 10,000mah batteries.
I've always only used 80% of the battery per charge and only charge at 2c instead of the 5c that the manufacture says it's ok to chargwe at.
I've been led to believe that charging at a slower rate will make the batteries last longer.

So after a few years the Ford battery has got to lose some of it's capacity.
Question is, is it better to save a few hundred and wait an hour longer to charge (if totally empty) or is it not really that big of a deal.

If after a year or two I could save 5 miles per charge by charging at 5k instead of 6.6kw that may work out better than waiting an extra hour which most always wouldn't matter anyways since the car is in the garage for the night.

Any comments or advice would be greatly appreciated.
I'm hoping to have my FFE by the next 2 weeks.

I talked to a tech at Clipper Creek about the 5kw charger and he said they're really shouldn't be much capacity loss over the at all over the years by charging at 6.6kw v/s 5kw.
He did point out though that even though the Focus accepts 6.6kw it may not even let that rate in because the batteries may be really hot so it would charge at a lower rate because the battery is already hot. So if that's the case my battery will always be hot since I'd be getting home from a 30 mile commute and plugging right in.
OR, would the water cooling system keep the battery at the same temp regardless and the car would let 6.6kw in anyways?

It's confusing getting into an electric car but trying to calculate everything out is kinda fun

 

[WattsUp]

You're almost right. The charging times will not be what you've calculated -- they will be slightly longer. You need to factor in the efficiency of the charging process. And, the usable battery capacity of the FFE is actually more like 19.5 kWh.

Turns out, the charging process for modern EVs is, on average, only about 80% efficient. It generates quite a bit of heat (just like when charging your phone or laptop). In other words, it takes about 20% more energy delivered from your electric utility to charge the FFE than will actually end up stored in its battery. (Don't worry, this is still much more efficient than burning left-over fossils.) Taking this into account, storing 19.5 kWh will require a total of about 24.4 kWh, as delivered by your EVSE to the on-board charger within the FFE:

19.5 kWh / 0.8 = 24.4 kWh

To compute the charging time for a particular EVSE then, we need to take the total kWh needed and divide it by the power level that the FFE's on-board charger will be able to operate at. This level will be the minimum of the EVSE's maximum wattage and 6.6 kW (the maximum wattage of the FFE's on-board charger).

Therefore, the nominal full charge time for the GE WattStation can be computed like so:

24.4 kWh / 6.6kW = 3.7 hours

This matches the "3-4 hours" that Ford advertises for the FFE using a "full power" EVSE like the WattStation.

The time for any other EVSE can be calculated the same way. Let's compute the charge time for the ClipperCreek LCS-25 you mentioned:

24.4 kWh / 4.8 kW = 5 hours

Btw, I have the LCS-25 and can confirm, when my FFE says 0 miles, it takes just about 5 hours to recharge.

Lastly, note that actual charge times will also vary with the ambient temperature, as this affects the efficiency of the charging process.

-----

I think the LCS-25 is a great value for the money. Sure it's a bit slower than something like a WattStation, but it has the great advantage of being easily converted into a portable Level 2 charger which only needs 20 amps (which means it can be plugged into almost any major household appliance outlet, at yours or a friend's house).

You may be interested in the thread, "Check out my mobile Level 2 charging kit!", where I describe how I made my LCS-25 portable:
http://www.myfocuselectric.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1004

My only complaint about the LCS-25 is that its charging cord handle is excessively "tight" to insert/remove in the charging port of the FFE (and also a friend's Volt that I tried it on). But, this seems to be getting better as I use it. At first, though, it takes a strong and steady hand.

 

[Jasper7821]

Wow, thank you so very for taking the time to give me all that great info. I really so appreciate it.
I will take your knowledge as gold and use it wisely.

Since you made a way to make the LCS-25 truly portable I may just get that one and do your mod.

Only snag I ran into is I had worked out a deal with Ford so I went ahead and pretty much got someone to take over my lease on my 2012 328.
The dealer made me the deal on the 2013 white platinum with leather and 15k miles for $321.61 monthly fr 36 months out the door including all fees. Based on that I told my buyer to start the process. He paid $500 transfer fee to BMW and we're in the transfer process now.
Then tonight I went to finalize the deal and it all of a sudden went up $72 a month.
So with the extra $2,592 they want its better to just keep my car.
I got pissed and left.
I called another dealer in Phoenix to see if they can do the original deal they gave me.
If so, then I'll get the car, if not then I'm just keeping my BMW and lose $100 since if I cancel the transfer BMW will refund $400.

 

[WattsUp]

You're welcome. I sure hope you are able to put yourself in an FFE -- you won't regret it. Sorry your original dealer is jerking you around... :roll: maybe they will reconsider if you hold firm on the original deal. You probably know this... be firm, but remain calm, let them think you have other options (especially if you actually do). They almost always eventually skwirm at the last minute.

Good luck.

 

[Jasper7821]

You're welcome. I sure hope you are able to put yourself in an FFE -- you won't regret it. Sorry your original dealer is jerking you around... :roll: maybe they will reconsider if you hold firm on the original deal. You probably know this... be firm, but remain calm, let them think you have other options (especially if you actually do). They almost always eventually skwirm at the last minute.

Good luck.

Thanks, I'm really hoping to get one. But with the extra $2,600 it makes sence to just keep my car. Hopefully another dealer can do better.
This dealer is not going to budge. We both have about 10 hrs invested and I've been there about 10 times in the last month and test drove it a few times and even the long commute to work on the freeway just to make sure it could do it.
So if I get the car somewhere else it will be quick and easy since I already know everythig I need to know about the car and all I need to do is go and sign a lease agreement.

 

[WattsUp]

Over a two week period, I had a dealer (for my FFE actually) that "just could not do it" and "would be losing money" until the morning I called and left a message that I was headed out to another dealer to make my purchase. Well, lo and behold, suddenly the money-losing deal was something he could do after all. Left me two voicemails and an email about it. Needless to say, the other dealer (that I really was heading to) ended up with my business anyway.

So, you never can tell. The process sucks. Like you said, at least you've got your research done!

 

[Jasper7821]

Over a two week period, I had a dealer (for my FFE actually) that "just could not do it" and "would be losing money" until the morning I called and left a message that I was headed out to another dealer to make my purchase. Well, lo and behold, suddenly the money-losing deal was something he could do after all. Left me two voicemails and an email about it. Needless to say, the other dealer (that I really was heading to) ended up with my business anyway.

So, you never can tell. The process sucks. Like you said, at least you've got your research done!

I'm pretty bummed out. Got the final numbers from the Phoenix dealer and the lease is even more. Instead of the Tucson promised price of $321.61 zero down out the door 36 months 15k year mileage, white platinum and leather and them raising it to $393.61 OTD.
The Phoenix price is even more at $415.62 a month.

Dang, I thought I was going to get an FFE. Oh well, at least I have a 2012 328 that gets 35mpg on the highway. But the savings with the FFE were awesome.