qflyer
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2014 7:32 pm

2014 FFE w/ 125,000 miles. SSN.

Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:10 pm

Like the title says...what am I looking at most likely? Accessories all come on, but no green car icon. Within a few seconds of pressing the on button, I get a wrench and a few seconds after that the SSN warning. My wife started the car yesterday, and got the wrench but the car ran fine. She made a few stops around town, got the wrench every time but no other issues. She got home and plugged it in. Few hours later, went to go out again, car had not charged and she got the SSN when she started it.

Anything I can try before trailering it to the dealership?

qflyer
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2014 7:32 pm

Re: 2014 FFE w/ 125,000 miles. SSN.

Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:00 pm

And for additional info after having a few minutes to look at it...the 12V battery was at 12.4v when I checked it this morning. Tried jumper cables, no luck. Put it on a good charger and it’s been putting out 7 amps for almost an hour now. Battery has slowly increased to show 13.6v while still charging. If I open the door, try to start the car, or really do anything, the voltage instantly drops to 12.6ish and slowly drops as long as anything in the car is running.

Could a bad 12v battery cause what I’m seeing? It is the original battery, so 6 years old.

Heima
Posts: 106
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:46 pm

Re: 2014 FFE w/ 125,000 miles. SSN.

Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:30 pm

At first I thought it was a bad 12V battery as well, but the fact that the voltage continues to drop while the car is powered by the HV battery says something is amiss with the DCDC converter, which is under the big black engine cover. Before getting heavy into diagnostics, disconnect the postive terminal from the 12v battery. While disconnected, measure the voltage across the 12v battery terminals. Keep it disconnected for about an hour. If while disconnected the 12v battery voltage drops below 12.4v, it needs to be replaced. When you reattach the positive terminal, check voltage again, and when you power the car on, check the voltage again. it should never drop below 12.4v. if it does, replace the 12v battery.

By disconnecting for an hour, you will hopefully reset the vehicle system. This not a guarrantee to reset the SSN, but it might help. Let us know how it goes.

It probably would not hurt to replace the 12v battery, and a much cheaper type 26R will fit. See my post on replacing the battery here:
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=4938#p32447
Also if you havent dowloaded yet, see my post about getting the factory service manual here:
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4921#p32331

Do you have an OBDII code reader?

Good Luck

qflyer
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2014 7:32 pm

Re: 2014 FFE w/ 125,000 miles. SSN.

Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:30 pm

Heima, Thanks. The 12v battery charged all day. With the car off, the battery reads 12.65v. With the positive terminal disconnected, it shows 12.82v should there be a voltage difference just because the positive is attached or not? . With the car on and alerts all flashing, it dropped instantly to12.4v and went down to 12.31v over about a 20-30 second time. It then held steady at 12.31. The green ready to drive indicator never comes on. Without that indicator, is anything powered by the HV battery, or is it all 12V?

I also see the same general voltage drops when I plug the car in to L2. I haven't measured the exact voltages with just plugging it in, but I think it's the same general drop to 12.4ish then drop a bit more. The charge ring does it's normal light sequence, but then just keeps the first quadrant illuminated. Maybe flashing, maybe steady. Don't remember. The HV battery is at 18% right now and will not take a charge.

qflyer
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2014 7:32 pm

Re: 2014 FFE w/ 125,000 miles. SSN.

Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:37 pm

Heima wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:30 pm

Do you have an OBDII code reader?

Good Luck
No, I don't, but looks like I can get one for about $20 from walmart. Would a generic reader be good enough, or do I need something specific?

qflyer
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2014 7:32 pm

Re: 2014 FFE w/ 125,000 miles. SSN.

Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:37 am

Put in a new battery, same exact thing happens. Volts drop when I start it. Something seems to be putting a big draw on the battery. 12.8+v drops to 12.4 with all accessories off. Down to 12.2 with ac and headlights on. Anything to check myself before I take it to Ford?

Heima
Posts: 106
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:46 pm

Re: 2014 FFE w/ 125,000 miles. SSN.

Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:34 pm

While a dual speed (HS/MS) CAN OBDII interface would be ideal, with Forscan installed on a laptop, a basic OBDII reader should give you some codes that you could begin diagnostics. It really seems odd that there is no apparent DCDC support.

So some people have found that the telemetrics system can screw up 12V systems, and they advise to just remove fuse F1 in the rear fuse box. In the trunk on the driver side is a large rectangular panel, behind it is the fuse box. F1 is a 5 amp fuse in the upper left corner. Don't reinstall the fuse.

The service manual also says to check F22 in the under hood fuse box, to the left of the 12v battery. When you check the fuse, completely remove it. F22 is the fuse for the battery monitoring system. Sometimes when you do a jump start or charing of the 12v battery the monitoring system can get confused. It does not control the 12v out of the battery, but the possibility of charging of the battery by the DCDC converter. You can reinstall this fuse.

If you remove the big black foam cover under the hood, the DCDC converter is to the RH (passenger) side of the vehicle. It has the high voltage orange cables connecting it, the thick low voltage 12v cables, and a signal/logic cable. You can safely check the low voltage 12V cables and the signal/logic cable.
Check if the low voltage cables are loose or can move when wiggled. Disconnect and then reconnect the signal/logic cable (top center). The orange high voltage cable requires you to take some safety precautions first. After disconnecting the positive terminal cable from the 12v battery positive terminal, you can remove the low voltage cables from the DCDC converter and inspect for corrosion or arching. After shutting off high voltage, you can check the orange high voltage cable. You can disconnect it, and then reconnect it, checking that it is very secure on reconnection. Pay close attention as it is most likely a 2-stage design. If you partially disconnect it and you do not fully remove it, or if you fully remove it, but do not fully connect it, you might get HVIL errors, and the vehicle probably won't even start. The thick orange wires are for the high voltage, the thin orange wires are for the HVIL.

The reason you are checking the connectors is because there is a possibility that they are loose, or corroded. You are disconnecting them to make a visual inspection of this situation. If the low voltage cables are corroded, you can clean them up yourself with sandpaper or a cardboard fingernail file. If the high voltage connector is corroded, it is best to let the dealership clean that. Mind you, it might be necessary to replace the HV cable if it is severly corroded. Though you might be curious, do not touch the metal surfaces inside of the connector. Your skin oil can adversely affect the quality of the connection.


To remove the black foam cover, use a plastic trim tool, or a pair of butter knifes to pull straight up on the center "button" inside of the "volcano". It has to raise about 1/2 inch before it will release from the bracket underneath the black foam cover. Do this for both buttons. Once the buttons are up, pull up on both buttons to release the clips and enable the black foam cover to be removed from the bracket.

To install the black foam cover, position the cover so that the buttons kind of seat in the holes of the bracket underneath. Push down on the volcano, and while doing so, push the button down. It takes a little fiddling around to get the buttons into the holes of the bracket.

To shut off high voltage. open the hood. open the rear passenger door and flip forward the rear passenger seat. Disconnect the positive terminal cable from the 12v battery, and position it so that it cannot mistakenly make contact with the battery positive terminal. At this point, the vehicle must be completely "dead". Wait 5 minutes. Behind the rear passenger seat is a small black door, flip that down. You will see the orange high voltage disconnect. Press the white clip and raise the black handle about to 45 degrees. Press the white clip again and continue to raise the handle to 90 degrees. Separate the disconnect from the battery pack. The vehicle high voltage is shut down. But you must still be cautious. Also here, do not touch the metal plates of the disconnect, as your skin oil can adversely affect the quality of the connection.

To power back on high voltage, place the disconnect back onto the orange socket of the high voltage battery. While pressing it in, release the white clip and lower the black handle from 90 degress to 45 degress. Press the white clip again and lower the handle all the way down until it clicks. Put the black cover back on. Return the rear passenger seat back to its riding position. Reconnect the postitive terminal cable to the 12V battery positive terminal.

Know that most EV techs at dealerships don't know that much about the electric power train. Sadly, they will be guessing and just throwing parts at a lot of the problems that happen with EVs. This is why you read so many postings of how it takes so long for the dealer to solve the problem.

Good Luck

Heima
Posts: 106
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:46 pm

Re: 2014 FFE w/ 125,000 miles. SSN.

Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:08 pm

In response to your other question, when you open the driver door, listen for a clunk from the rear of the vehicle. if your ears are good enough, you might hear three clunks together. The clunks are the high voltage battery being turned on. If you do nothing for about 1 minute, or leave the car and shut the door, you will hear the clunk again, that is the high voltage battery turning off.
You will also hear this clunking when starting the vehicle.

Heima
Posts: 106
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:46 pm

Re: 2014 FFE w/ 125,000 miles. SSN.

Sun Oct 25, 2020 3:01 pm

I want to apologize.
It seems that it is not possible to use a regular OBDII scanner on the FFE. I tried with two scanners this weekend. A made in 2017 cheapie no-name model, and a quality OTC SPX model. Because in the past I had used a dual speed ELM327 interface with Forscan, I was able to pull OBDII type DTC codes. I mistakenly thought that those same DTC codes would be visible with a run-of-the-mill OBDII scanner.
I do hope that I did not contribute to your frustration.

Was removing F1 and pulling and reinstalling F22 of any benefit?

qflyer
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2014 7:32 pm

Re: 2014 FFE w/ 125,000 miles. SSN.

Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:07 pm

Heima wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 3:01 pm
I want to apologize.
It seems that it is not possible to use a regular OBDII scanner on the FFE. I tried with two scanners this weekend. A made in 2017 cheapie no-name model, and a quality OTC SPX model. Because in the past I had used a dual speed ELM327 interface with Forscan, I was able to pull OBDII type DTC codes. I mistakenly thought that those same DTC codes would be visible with a run-of-the-mill OBDII scanner.
I do hope that I did not contribute to your frustration.

Was removing F1 and pulling and reinstalling F22 of any benefit?
I did try a scanner at autozone, and got an error. No worries, I already had the car on the trailer to take to ford the next morning. I tried the fuses, no change. Checked all the connections I could. None were loose, corroded, full of water, or anything crazy like that. Dropped it off at the dealership last week and they say it’ll be at least another week before they can diagnose it.

I have zero faith that they know anything about this car. One guy that called to tell me they weren’t able to get to it before last weekend said, “good news! It looks like there’s a recall on the charger cord on these cars. Maybe that’s the problem!” I told him I’d already gotten the new charger and that’s unrelated. He said, “well, you never know. Maybe you got a bad charger?”

Today, a different guy called to tell me they hadn’t gotten to it yet, and he said, “looks like your car hasn’t had the modem recall performed yet. I’m going to have the tech look at that, and I think that could solve your problem! Fingers crossed!”

lol, what’s wrong with these guys?

Thanks for all your help, I’ll post as I get updates.

What’s the best way to dispose of the car if it’s something like a bad battery? Junk yard? Part it out? Light it on fire? It’s gotta be worth something to somebody.

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