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 Post subject: Battery Test
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:14 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2015 12:48 pm
Posts: 19
Location: Dallas, Texas
I tired to search for this topic, may be did not use right key words. So my 2015 FFE is at 63K, I want to check how much capacity does it have. Do I fully charge and then run the heater until the battery runs out that way I know how much KW was used? Now before I do that and whatever my results may be, what can I expect the KW to be for a 63K miles usage. That way I am not taking it to dealership and calming that the battery disintegrated more then its suppose to.

Thanks

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2015 Focus Electric Tectonic Region 4 adnan1980


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 Post subject: Re: Battery Test
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:37 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:40 am
Posts: 1044
Location: Toledo, Ohio
Yes that is the most accurate way to tell what your usable capacity is. However if you don't want to be as cruel to your battery, you can get a pretty good estimate by using some math. You can just do some driving. The kWh shown on the trip meter takes into account the regen so it's showing you what's actually available from the battery. (ie the kWh used goes down when you regen). Or if you prefer use the heater to run the battery low 10% 15% 20% the exact % isn't important. For my example I'll say I ran the battery down to 15% and the car says I used 15.0kWh. I simply take the power used and divide it by the % of the battery I used. So it would be 15kWh/85% or 15kWh/0.85 = 17.6kWh. That's not as accurate as running the battery down to the stop safely now message but it's a lot easier on your battery and close enough to get a good idea.

Fully discharging the battery is not good for it and will accelerate it's degradation. You can bitch to Ford or the dealer all you want. There is no capacity guarantee on the battery. The greater the depth of discharge between charges the faster the battery will degrade. Also letting it sit fully charged isn't good either. Although Ford mostly mitigates this by only allowing the battery to reach 90% SOC. I would guess you're probably in the 15 kWh range. I'm at 20k miles with my '14 and am at about 17kW. Both age and usage will degrade battery capacity.

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http://www.fuelly.com/car/ford/focus/2014/triangles/303811 (since this forum doesn't allow BBcode in sigs)


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 Post subject: Re: Battery Test
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:33 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2015 12:48 pm
Posts: 19
Location: Dallas, Texas
triangles wrote:
Yes that is the most accurate way to tell what your usable capacity is. However if you don't want to be as cruel to your battery, you can get a pretty good estimate by using some math. You can just do some driving. The kWh shown on the trip meter takes into account the regen so it's showing you what's actually available from the battery. (ie the kWh used goes down when you regen). Or if you prefer use the heater to run the battery low 10% 15% 20% the exact % isn't important. For my example I'll say I ran the battery down to 15% and the car says I used 15.0kWh. I simply take the power used and divide it by the % of the battery I used. So it would be 15kWh/85% or 15kWh/0.85 = 17.6kWh. That's not as accurate as running the battery down to the stop safely now message but it's a lot easier on your battery and close enough to get a good idea.

Fully discharging the battery is not good for it and will accelerate it's degradation. You can bitch to Ford or the dealer all you want. There is no capacity guarantee on the battery. The greater the depth of discharge between charges the faster the battery will degrade. Also letting it sit fully charged isn't good either. Although Ford mostly mitigates this by only allowing the battery to reach 90% SOC. I would guess you're probably in the 15 kWh range. I'm at 20k miles with my '14 and am at about 17kW. Both age and usage will degrade battery capacity.



Thanks for all the info, with my 50 miles commute every day to work, and now and then I also drive for lyft, 1 to 2 rides on the way to home, added all those miles.

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 Post subject: Re: Battery Test
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:26 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:59 am
Posts: 17
Location: Poland
Connect ELM 327. Use ForScan. Read the battery capacity, charge level and display level.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Battery Test
PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:07 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2014 1:17 pm
Posts: 12
Location: Las Vegas, NV
I had a 2014 for 3 years that got very good range. If there was any degradation, I didn't notice. Range was similar throughout my ownership.
I have been driving / riding electric Vehicles for about a dozen years with hypermiling being my most common style of driving.
Earlier this year I stumbled across a 2016 with 28 miles sitting unsold on a dealer's lot. They made me a deal " I couldn't refuse " so now I have
another. I immediately noticed that the range wasn't anywhere close to my 2014. I am guessing that it sat unloved for 2 years on the lot. Probably
unplugged. I was hoping that " exercising " the battery would help. Four Thousand miles later, it is getting progressively worse.
It charges to 100% but drops immediately upon driving. I have recently done some quick tests using ChargePoint to verify battery used.
Charged tonight with 28 miles since full. Car was showing 57% battery with 40 miles left. The weather here in Vegas has been in the mid to high
sixties all week. No climate control has been used. Assuming 20 KW as full, this would indicate 11.4 KW left. The ChargePoint used charges at just
under 6 KW per hour. With the slow down at the end, this should take 2 hours to full. At Exactly ONE hour, the charge began to slow and the FFE
showed 100% with 77 miles of range. ChargePoint shows that it delivered 5.4 KW which is about right (even low for my driving style ) for the miles
driven.
Once unplugged and started ( engaged? ), showing 77 miles, if I turn on the heater, it drops 23 miles of range. Heater off, it goes back to 77.
What type drop do most of you see when heat is engaged? ChargePoint shows about a 2 KW draw if heat is turned on while charging.
Anyone who has had a battery go bad on their cell phone should recall that the battery goes dead quickly then charges to " full "
equally as quickly, usually taking about 1/4 the time to SHOW full. I am guessing that is the situation with my FFE.
I have photos and videos I have taken of charge levels before and after charge, along with the ChargePoint graph.
Any suggestions as to how to approach a Ford dealer? The dealer I purchased the vehicle from is in a different state, so not going back to them.
I had a similar issue with the battery in my Honda Civic Hybrid. Took it to the dealer who agreed that the battery was defective but was unable to do
anything unless it threw a code. Several years later, it finally threw the code. I took it back to the same dealer who this time did a warranty
exchange even though it was now long out of warranty.
I have a Few OBDII adaptors that I have tried with Torque app and Forscan Paid version but, while the adaptor shows up on the phone, it won't
connect to the apps. Will be ordering a compatible one soon.
Any suggestions on that as well. When I had the 2014, I spoke with the people at Scanguage about something that would give me the enhanced
options needed for a BEV and they said that they had something specifically for the FFE. Was pricey compared to the ELM but offered quite a bit
more.


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 Post subject: Re: Battery Test
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:58 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:40 am
Posts: 1044
Location: Toledo, Ohio
First no 23kWh FFE has 20kWh usable. When brand new, usable capacity is 19.5kWh at best but most likely 19kWh. Batteries degrade with both age and use so at best you have 18.5kWh usable, more than likely less. Ford has no warranty on capacity so unless the battery indicates a fault you are SOL.

You seem to be relying on the Guess-O-Meter (GOM) a little too much. There's a reason it's called the GOM. The GOM can be wildly inaccurate especially when driving conditions change. You need to look at how much energy you are using and the battery's % charge to get an idea of your battery's health. You should be looking at how many kWh you are getting out of the battery by using the enhanced trip meter and noting the battery's charge% shown under the settings on the main SYNC screen.

You can do a draw down test to see what your usable capacity is but I would advise against that as doing so puts unnecessary wear and tear on the battery. Heater can draw 5-7kW. You do this by turning on the enhanced trip meter (so you see how many kWh you used) after charging to 100%. Then you roll down the windows and turn on the heat full blast. It takes about 3 hours until you get the battery depleted warning. Then whatever the enhanced trip meter says is your usable battery capacity. I recommend not wasting a charge cycle and being nicer to your battery. I suggest, charge to 100%, reset enhanced trip meter, use car as you normally would until you get the battery low(10-15%ish). Then you can get a pretty good estimate of your usable capacity by dividing the kWh used by the battery% used. For example if you use 15kWh to run the battery down to 10% you would calculate your usable capacity as follows: 15kWh/0.9= 16.67kWh.

If I were in Vegas with you I'd wager a large sum of money that unless your usable capacity is in the neighborhood of 11kWh or less Ford would probably laugh at you. FYI my 2014 with 21k miles is down to about 16kWh but it's cold here. I expect it to go back up to 17ish kWh when it gets warm next spring.

With the car sitting so long it's possible the cells are out of balance. That's kind of what it sounds like you are describing. Are you leaving it plugged in to an EVSE overnight so the BMS has a chance to re-balance the cells? I haven't played around with forscan enough to see if it has the ability to provide any info on cell balance. You can do a lot more with the computer version of Forscan. Do some testing and let us know what your usable capacity is. On the plus side if your battery does end up being bad, Ford will replace your 23kWh battery with a 33.5kWh battery since the old battery cells are no longer available.

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2014 Blue Candy FFE
http://www.fuelly.com/car/ford/focus/2014/triangles/303811 (since this forum doesn't allow BBcode in sigs)


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