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 Post subject: Re: Chevy Bolt Drive
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:39 am 
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Posts: 66
Location: Pismo Beach, California
EastWestBrothers wrote:
Smoking_Rubber wrote:
The FFEs I looked at w/ leather seats MSRP is $31k. The Bolt Premium (the model OP got) lists MSRP at $44k. The Model 3 (sorry to offend, M3 was just my shorthand) starts at $35k but easily jumps to the $44k range with a couple premium options. The OP is a day 1 reservation holder and he's been promised a Model 3 between Dec and Feb if I recall correctly. So yeah, you and I don't have that option but OP could have had a Model 3 in just a couple months. IF I WERE HIM, I would have had a Model 3 for the same amount he spent on the Bolt. The leasing situation may have played a factor in his decision but it's hard to say how much.


The Bolt is $44k fully loaded. That is with all option packages available and excludes dealer installed options. Sure there are a few things I would like that the Bolt does not have, most notably adaptive cruise control, but it comes pretty well optioned out.

I weighed the possibilities and honestly, the Model 3, as desirable as it is, just does not come off as a responsible financial choice, at the moment. For one, I have no idea whether Tesla will hit that December to February delivery timeframe. Considering that at the end of September, they had only produced 260 or so cars and not the 1,500 that were promised, I am not feeling terribly optimistic.

Another factor I had to consider was that the lease on my FFE was coming to a close. Ford only offered to allow me to extend up to two months, which would only get me to the start of December. Could I have just done something in the interim? Probably, but that creates a lot of hassle and cost for me.

Third, from a financial perspective, a Model 3 optioned the way I would want it was likely going to cost $46k before taxes and would result in my wait time getting pushed back to February to April. If I took the first available, my cost is $54k before taxes. Since leasing is not available, I would be looking at a purchase, which includes the potential hassle of selling the car down the road. On a purchase, I was looking at at least $14k out of pocket for the down payment, taxes, and fees and around $850/month on a 5-year loan through Tesla's preferred lender. Sure I would get $10k on that back on rebates and tax credits, but that also requires more work on my part. The leases from third party leasing companies were not much better, with $4-5k drive-off and $750+/month before taxes.

There is simply too much uncertainty around the Model 3 and, as much as I want a Tesla, I also have to do what is responsible. My monthly payments with taxes included are less than half of of what third-party lessors wanted for the Model 3 and are almost 1/3 of what the loan payment would be and that was with no money out of pocket aside from my first month's payment. All my DMV fees, taxes, etc. were all rolled into my monthly payment. I am also going to be getting nearly $3k in my pocket from rebates through the state and my local power utility. My total cost of ownership for the next 3 years comes out to nearly $2k less than what it was on the FFE. I may not have access to Tesla's supercharger network, but for the vast majority of the driving my wife and I do, we have gotten by with readily available public charging and just using a Level 1 charger at home.

Like I said in the post, if I take out the subjective desire for a Tesla, the Bolt makes a whole heck of a lot of sense. And in three years, I can evaluate the available EV landscape and potentially get much more car for around the same money.


That's awesome you got a great deal on a Bolt. It's super hard for me to discount the WANT factor of a Tesla (they probably know that too). It's weird that the monthly payment and the down payment are so different between two vehicles similarly priced. I too want to lease something just to keep the payment low and allow the flexibility of upgrading in 3 years. I'm going to test the waters at the Chevy dealer and see if there's a great deal to be found. I love a good deal.

The FFE has a lower MSRP but they aren't offering any fantastic deals to make the payment even lower. I'm hearing 3k down and 250 a month for 3 years. If the Bolt comes close to that I might have to take a long look at it. I'm also looking at a 2018 Nissan Leaf.

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2017 Chevrolet Bolt Premium (My DD)
2013 Toyota FJ Cruiser (Weekend Beach Buggy)
2016 Mazda CX-5 (Wife's DD)


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 Post subject: Re: Chevy Bolt Drive
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:58 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:55 am
Posts: 1114
Location: Los Angeles, CA
For what its worth, we got a Bolt Premier with both packages and DCFC ($43510 MSRP) on a 36 Month, 15K mile lease for $360 including California sales tax, zero down, zero driveaway (about $329 before sales tax). That did not involve the California $2500 rebate which will effectively reduce the cost by another $70 a month.

What's the best going rate for a 15K mile, zero down zero driveaway lease on an FFE with leather? Thats a good way to compare the real cost differential. Include sales tax and it's apples to apples.

_________________
2013 FFE Returned after 3 years with 52,000 miles and battery down to 15.2 kWh
2014 Volt returned with 43,000 miles
2014 Volt 26,000 miles
1967 Corvette 427
1962 Corvette 327
Awaiting a Bolt


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 Post subject: Re: Chevy Bolt Drive
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:02 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:01 pm
Posts: 66
Location: Pismo Beach, California
michael wrote:
For what its worth, we got a Bolt Premier with both packages and DCFC ($43510 MSRP) on a 36 Month, 15K mile lease for $360 including California sales tax, zero down, zero driveaway (about $329 before sales tax). That did not involve the California $2500 rebate which will effectively reduce the cost by another $70 a month.

What's the best going rate for a 15K mile, zero down zero driveaway lease on an FFE with leather? Thats a good way to compare the real cost differential. Include sales tax and it's apples to apples.


Ford website is quoting $320 mo with 0 down @ 15k miles. That likely also doesn't include the California $2500 rebate.

But that's according to the website calculator. I went to Chevy's site and ran a build on the 2017 Bolt Premuim... it says $360 a month plus $4,538 due at signing! That's not even a 2018 model.

PS. I just read that the Bolt has a super narrow front seat. That's an issue for me! I'm 6'4" 310 lbs. That's a deal-breaker.

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2017 Chevrolet Bolt Premium (My DD)
2013 Toyota FJ Cruiser (Weekend Beach Buggy)
2016 Mazda CX-5 (Wife's DD)


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 Post subject: Re: Chevy Bolt Drive
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:45 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:55 am
Posts: 1114
Location: Los Angeles, CA
That almost certainly also does not include sales tax, and zero down is not the same as zero drive away. That deal probably requires maybe $800 or so in fees due at signing. The deal one should want is zero drive away, not a penny due at signing..

And yes forget the website calculator. In general you can do hugely better in real life

_________________
2013 FFE Returned after 3 years with 52,000 miles and battery down to 15.2 kWh
2014 Volt returned with 43,000 miles
2014 Volt 26,000 miles
1967 Corvette 427
1962 Corvette 327
Awaiting a Bolt


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 Post subject: Re: Chevy Bolt Drive
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:15 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 9:13 am
Posts: 33
Smoking_Rubber wrote:
That's awesome you got a great deal on a Bolt. It's super hard for me to discount the WANT factor of a Tesla (they probably know that too). It's weird that the monthly payment and the down payment are so different between two vehicles similarly priced. I too want to lease something just to keep the payment low and allow the flexibility of upgrading in 3 years. I'm going to test the waters at the Chevy dealer and see if there's a great deal to be found. I love a good deal.

The FFE has a lower MSRP but they aren't offering any fantastic deals to make the payment even lower. I'm hearing 3k down and 250 a month for 3 years. If the Bolt comes close to that I might have to take a long look at it. I'm also looking at a 2018 Nissan Leaf.


Honestly, it was difficult for me to let go of the Model 3 as well, but the numbers simply were not working out. The problem with the Model 3 leases is that it is too new to have reliable data for the lease residual values and the numbers for the Model S and Model X have not helped because those are on a class of car that typically sees pretty low residual values except for when the manufacturer is heavily subsidizing. Ultimately, that is the downfall of the Model 3, since it is targeting a class of owner that normally leases more than buys. Just look at the numbers on the BMW 3-series and 5-series as evidence.

As for getting a good deal, the best ones are in CA and MA because the car has been on sale the longest and inventory has been plentiful. Now that the car is on sale nationwide, it may even make the deals more readily available. Shop around a bit and you can likely make the numbers work in your favor.

If you look at a Bolt LT with all the packages, I suspect you can get to the same numbers as a 2018 FFE. No leather seats though unless you go for the Premier trim.

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2017 Chevrolet Bolt EV Premier
2014 Ford Focus Electric (returned 10/6/2017)

East-West Brothers Garage
http://www.eastwestbrothersgarage.com


Last edited by EastWestBrothers on Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Chevy Bolt Drive
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:16 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 9:13 am
Posts: 33
michael wrote:
For what its worth, we got a Bolt Premier with both packages and DCFC ($43510 MSRP) on a 36 Month, 15K mile lease for $360 including California sales tax, zero down, zero driveaway (about $329 before sales tax). That did not involve the California $2500 rebate which will effectively reduce the cost by another $70 a month.

What's the best going rate for a 15K mile, zero down zero driveaway lease on an FFE with leather? Thats a good way to compare the real cost differential. Include sales tax and it's apples to apples.


Did you get your car from a dealer in Cerritos?

If so, I actually used your deal to get the numbers work backwards to calculate my deal.

_________________
2017 Chevrolet Bolt EV Premier
2014 Ford Focus Electric (returned 10/6/2017)

East-West Brothers Garage
http://www.eastwestbrothersgarage.com


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 Post subject: Re: Chevy Bolt Drive
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:18 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 9:13 am
Posts: 33
Smoking_Rubber wrote:
PS. I just read that the Bolt has a super narrow front seat. That's an issue for me! I'm 6'4" 310 lbs. That's a deal-breaker.


If you can sit in a Honda S2000 comfortably, you'll be fine in the Bolt. If cars like the Miata and S2000 are too small for you, you might struggle a bit with the seats in the Bolt.

_________________
2017 Chevrolet Bolt EV Premier
2014 Ford Focus Electric (returned 10/6/2017)

East-West Brothers Garage
http://www.eastwestbrothersgarage.com


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 Post subject: Re: Chevy Bolt Drive
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:58 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:01 pm
Posts: 66
Location: Pismo Beach, California
EastWestBrothers wrote:
Smoking_Rubber wrote:
PS. I just read that the Bolt has a super narrow front seat. That's an issue for me! I'm 6'4" 310 lbs. That's a deal-breaker.


If you can sit in a Honda S2000 comfortably, you'll be fine in the Bolt. If cars like the Miata and S2000 are too small for you, you might struggle a bit with the seats in the Bolt.


There's a Chevy dealer about a mile away. I'll head over and give it the big ass test.

_________________
2017 Chevrolet Bolt Premium (My DD)
2013 Toyota FJ Cruiser (Weekend Beach Buggy)
2016 Mazda CX-5 (Wife's DD)


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 Post subject: Re: Chevy Bolt Drive
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:07 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:55 am
Posts: 1114
Location: Los Angeles, CA
EastWestBrothers wrote:
michael wrote:
For what its worth, we got a Bolt Premier with both packages and DCFC ($43510 MSRP) on a 36 Month, 15K mile lease for $360 including California sales tax, zero down, zero driveaway (about $329 before sales tax). That did not involve the California $2500 rebate which will effectively reduce the cost by another $70 a month.

What's the best going rate for a 15K mile, zero down zero driveaway lease on an FFE with leather? Thats a good way to compare the real cost differential. Include sales tax and it's apples to apples.


Did you get your car from a dealer in Cerritos?

If so, I actually used your deal to get the numbers work backwards to calculate my deal.


No, Glendale. And that was a few months back. I don't know if the prices are higher or lower today.

_________________
2013 FFE Returned after 3 years with 52,000 miles and battery down to 15.2 kWh
2014 Volt returned with 43,000 miles
2014 Volt 26,000 miles
1967 Corvette 427
1962 Corvette 327
Awaiting a Bolt


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 Post subject: Re: Chevy Bolt Drive
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:09 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:55 am
Posts: 1114
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Smoking_Rubber wrote:
EastWestBrothers wrote:
Smoking_Rubber wrote:
PS. I just read that the Bolt has a super narrow front seat. That's an issue for me! I'm 6'4" 310 lbs. That's a deal-breaker.


If you can sit in a Honda S2000 comfortably, you'll be fine in the Bolt. If cars like the Miata and S2000 are too small for you, you might struggle a bit with the seats in the Bolt.


There's a Chevy dealer about a mile away. I'll head over and give it the big ass test.


Check out both the cloth and leather seats. Consensus is that the leather has slightly better padding.

And it's not so much about the width as the shape. Some people have issues, some don't. Give it a try see how it works for you.

_________________
2013 FFE Returned after 3 years with 52,000 miles and battery down to 15.2 kWh
2014 Volt returned with 43,000 miles
2014 Volt 26,000 miles
1967 Corvette 427
1962 Corvette 327
Awaiting a Bolt


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