OBDII data for HVB

jmueller065 said:

Looks like the 3 loops are: Motor, Battery, and Cabin.

The Motor loop covers the motor and the DCDC converter (167F upper limit).
Battery covers both HVB's and the charging circuitry (no mention of upper limit but it does say "Batteries are most efficient at 50-95F").

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So it looks like during charging the motor loop coolant circulates to cool the DCDC converter and the power electronics box under the hood. And the battery loop circulates coolant to cool the charging circuitry. It appears that this may also heat the HVB since the charging circuitry gets hot very quickly and thus the coolant temp is soon warmer than the HVB temp...

jmueller065 said:

This morning, back to the normal time and preconditioning: ETE back up to 19376, batt temp 81, H_BATT_CHARGE 91%, BAT_CHA_DISPL 100%.

This behavior also sparks another possible reason, which seems more plausible than my last one (about the HVB discharging over time).
Since the FFE does have a bit of "spare space" in the battery with respect to charge (since it only tops off around 90% actual). What if, during the precondition cycle, the HVAC and other cooling systems don't use all the juice the EVSE is providing. The car would have to put that extra juice somewhere so into the battery it goes. Thus at the end of a precondition in moderate temps (I have the precondition temp set to 72F) the HVB has slightly more charge in it than as a normal charge.

I find this more plausible because in the depths of winter I've found the opposite to be true: The precondition uses more power than the EVSE can provide and thus when I drive away in the morning the car is showing 96% charge on the dash.

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I think you might be on to something. I have been recording my ETE on a full charge along with whether I preconditioned. I don't have enough data yet for a statistically significant conclusion, but my gut feel is that preconditioning sometimes results in a higher ETE and sometimes a lower ETE and that no preconditioning results in an ETE in the middle.

This morning was a bit odd: We had some minor storms come through yesterday and then (well after the storms) our power went out (we heard the transformer "explosion" just prior to losing power--getting used to that now since this is the 3rd time that has happened in the past few years). Power was restored shortly before 9pm.

After all that I had noticed there was another line of stronger storms on the way. In an attempt to stay ahead of the game I had the car start charging right then (instead of letting it do the value charge starting at 4am). Thus the car was fully charged when the very impressive light show started around 2am (looked like a strobe light going on outside with continuous lightning--but we didn't lose power).

Having said all that, after a normal precondition this morning:

• ETE - 19196
• ECU_VPW - 13.82V
• BAT_CHA_DISPL - 100%
• H_BATT_TEMP - 93F
• H_BATT_CHAR - 90.44%
• Internal cabin temp - 77F

Needless to say...I'm tired...LOL

Last night had the highest ETE I've seen yet, 19850 Wh.

I think that Jamie is on to something about using Go Times and having a higher starting ETE. In the winter we would always preheat the car with a Go Time and we would often go 6 blocks or more before we had regen braking. It seems that around 19,600 Wh is when our car starts having regen. Above that and there is no regen. Last night I had a Go Time set to 65 F. When I started the car the ETE showed 19,850 Wh. This was the highest ever. The charge power limit showed 0 kW and there was no regen. Charging without using preconditioning has resulted in the charge power limit being 60 kW even with a full charge, regen being available immediately & an ETE of around 19,100-19,500 Wh.

hybridbear said:

It shows that the input voltage from our L2 EVSE is 205 volts.

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I thought that 205 volts from our L2 EVSE seems rather low. Again this evening it showed 207-208 volts according to the SOBDM. The Fusion Energi showed the same voltage level. I don't know much about electrical wiring in buildings & voltage, but would voltage be impacted by the current electrical demand on the panel? I wonder if the voltage would be higher in the middle of the night when we usually charge.

hybridbear said:

hybridbear said:

It shows that the input voltage from our L2 EVSE is 205 volts.

Click to expand...

I thought that 205 volts from our L2 EVSE seems rather low. Again this evening it showed 207-208 volts according to the SOBDM. The Fusion Energi showed the same voltage level. I don't know much about electrical wiring in buildings & voltage, but would voltage be impacted by the current electrical demand on the panel? I wonder if the voltage would be higher in the middle of the night when we usually charge.

Click to expand...

This is reasonable. There are two main approaches to what I call "220 Volt". In residential areas, it is nominally 240 V. There are two hot phases, 180 degrees apart plus a neutral. The nominal 120 V regular household power is between one of the hot phases and neutral. The nominal 240 is between the two hots.

In commercial and industrial locations, there are three hot phases, 120 degrees apart and each 120 Volts from neutral. The "220" in such a location is between two of the hot phases. Since they are only 120 degrees apart (not 180 as in residential locations) the "220" is actually 208 V nominal.

And of course there are variations from the nominal depending on local conditions.

So 205 is fine. The car looks at current, not power, so 30 A at 208 charges a little slower than 30A at 240.

michael said:

hybridbear said:

hybridbear said:

It shows that the input voltage from our L2 EVSE is 205 volts.

Click to expand...

I thought that 205 volts from our L2 EVSE seems rather low. Again this evening it showed 207-208 volts according to the SOBDM. The Fusion Energi showed the same voltage level. I don't know much about electrical wiring in buildings & voltage, but would voltage be impacted by the current electrical demand on the panel? I wonder if the voltage would be higher in the middle of the night when we usually charge.

Click to expand...

This is reasonable. There are two main approaches to what I call "220 Volt". In residential areas, it is nominally 240 V. There are two hot phases, 180 degrees apart plus a neutral. The nominal 120 V regular household power is between one of the hot phases and neutral. The nominal 240 is between the two hots.

In commercial and industrial locations, there are three hot phases, 120 degrees apart and each 120 Volts from neutral. The "220" in such a location is between two of the hot phases. Since they are only 120 degrees apart (not 180 as in residential locations) the "220" is actually 208 V nominal.

And of course there are variations from the nominal depending on local conditions.

So 205 is fine. The car looks at current, not power, so 30 A at 208 charges a little slower than 30A at 240.

Click to expand...

Would the underground garage at our apartment have three phase power where it's only 208 V? I'm curious to see what the car shows at my parents house when connected to their EVSE. I'm also curious what public charging stations will show.

I stopped to charge at a public ChargePoint station this afternoon which says 6.6 kW per handle. No one else was charging while I was there. The Fusion Energi showed a 3 kW charge rate according to the ChargePoint app. FORScan showed 196 V for the input voltage from the EVSE. The fastest that this particular station has ever shown for the Focus Electric is 5.9 kW. Other ChargePoint stations will show 7.2 kW for the Focus Electric. I'll have to check their volts another day.

I charged the Focus tonight at a local L2 charging station. FORScan showed 244 volts & 29 amps. The ChargePoint app said 7.2 kW. The HVB temp rose from 84 to 98 in about 30 minutes. The outside temp was about 87. With the HVB that warm the fan kicked on for cooling. With the fan running for a few minutes the HVB temp dropped down to 93. At that point the fan shut off.

The HVB temp had risen back to 99 F. I remote started the car so the AC is running. This has slowed the rate of charging to the HVB. The temp is now down to 97 F and dropping. I just checked under the hood. Some of the coolant lines are cold to the touch, such as the lines for the AC. The lines going into the radiator are hot enough that they could burn you. In the last 4-5 mins the HVB temp has dropped from 100 to 95.

I'm not sure what has triggered it to rise & fall like this. The battery coolant pump reported by the PCM has been fairly constant at 71% speed since I began charging. The radiator fan cycled on to cool the HVB while charging before and triggered the drop. But after I remote started & got the fan running for the AC the HVB temp rose from 99 to 100 and then started falling. The radiator fan speed has varied. It's been around 40-55% for just the AC, but it did go up to >80% when the HVB temp went up to 100 and then it cooled down. The fan has now gone back down under 50% speed & the HVB temp is rising again.

One impact of charging is that the HVB cell temps stabilize. Often during driving or after being parked outside there may be a 15 F variance between the maximum & minimum temps reported by the BECM. While charging there has been 1-2 F variance only, and mostly the max & min temps have been the same.

hybridbear said:

Would the underground garage at our apartment have three phase power where it's only 208 V? I'm curious to see what the car shows at my parents house when connected to their EVSE. I'm also curious what public charging stations will show.

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I think so. An apartment building is likely to have "commercial" power systems.

Measure the "120" in your garage. If your "120" is pretty close to 120 and your "220" is pretty close to 208, then yes, that's the explanation for sure.

Public stations are likely to be 208. My understanding is that 240 is generally restricted to residential neighborhoods, but of course that can vary by power company.

I found a national standard for voltage tolerance. The supply should be +/- 5%, and the utilization should be +6/-13%, and they should only rarely reach these limits. Under these standards, "240" should not have a steady state reading below 208.

http://www.pge.com/includes/docs/pdfs/mybusiness/customerservice/energystatus/powerquality/voltage_tolerance.pdf

So I would say yes, your building has three phase, 208 nominal.

michael said:

hybridbear said:

Would the underground garage at our apartment have three phase power where it's only 208 V? I'm curious to see what the car shows at my parents house when connected to their EVSE. I'm also curious what public charging stations will show.

Click to expand...

I think so. An apartment building is likely to have "commercial" power systems.

Measure the "120" in your garage. If your "120" is pretty close to 120 and your "220" is pretty close to 208, then yes, that's the explanation for sure.

Public stations are likely to be 208. My understanding is that 240 is generally restricted to residential neighborhoods, but of course that can vary by power company.

So I would say yes, your building has three phase, 208 nominal.

Click to expand...

So to summarize:

• L2 charging at home is actually about 207 V
• L2 charging at the ChargePoint station at the grocery store across the street from home is actually about 196 V
• L2 charging at the ChargePoint station at Fort Snelling State Park is actually about 245 V

Would there be an expected difference in L1 voltage if I plug into an outlet in the garage at our apartment versus the garage at my parents' house? Thanks for the explanation. I wonder if there are variations in charging efficiency between L2 that is 196 V versus L2 that is 245 V.

L2 charging at your home is 208 nominal, yes. At a typical single family residence it's 240 nominal

If you see 196 V at the chargepoint, it's 208 nominal, and it's towards the low end of the normal range.

Fort Snelling evidentally has a split phase system like a residence.

The 245 will charge faster than the 196. It might be slightly more efficient, not sure about that, but that's not important to you.

There may be a difference between the 120 at two different locations, but they are nominally the same, whether split phase or three phase. 120 to neutral nominal in both cases.

Highest ETE ever this morning, 19.95 kWh! It's below 19.70 kWh that there is regen braking, above 19.70 there is no regen.

Michael - since you're seeing a lower ETE at a full charge, do you always have regen braking right from the start?

My parents' EVSE showed 240-241 V alternating back & forth.

I live at the top of a steep driveway, so in 50 feet I'm moving downhill.

Normal regeneration heading down the driveway.

michael said:

I live at the top of a steep driveway, so in 50 feet I'm moving downhill.

Normal regeneration heading down the driveway.

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So you get regen immediately and a lower ETE. Jamie sees ETEs above 19.6-19.7 and he has periods of no regen on a full charge. So as the HVB degrades you get regen right from the start.

The result seems to be as you describe but I don't see why one should cause the other. Could the software be so simple-minded that it permits regeneration whenever the ETE is below some value? I hope not!

Your ETE is a calculated value and I doubt that is what triggers the regeneration enablement. I would think that it is simply voltage related, with regen disabled only at the very top of the charge voltage range. I've noted that when the battery percent reads 100% I may not get regen, but as soon as it drops to 99%, I always do. I often get regen within few blocks of the house after a full charge. I would guess that your battery voltage only needs to sag the tiniest bit before regen is enabled.