Blink charging rate change...

I run my at 42.

According to the California Energy Commission

http://www.consumerenergycenter.org/transportation/consumer_tips/vehicle_energy_losses.html

Rolling resistance losses actually exceed aero losses overall (obviously not at high speed). Of course, neither of these begins to compare with the engine and braking losses suffered by ICE vehicles. But rolling resistance is quite important. I believe in higher tire pressures.

I think the car charging unit companies will come to the conclusion that more than $1 per hour for charging is more than the market will bear. The best way to underline that limit is just not to do business with companies that charge more than $1 per hour.

I have always supported charging something because it often keeps people that don't absolutely need the charge away. For instance, I see so many Plug in Priuses in California that just want to show everyone they have an "electric" car, so they plug in for hours. These folks don't have a plug-in, they have a hybrid with a plug in it. So when the PiPs see a charging unit that actually costs $1, they think twice. So charging for a charge isn't such a bad thing when the cost is reasonable.

I see we can now whine on about cost of 'refueling' just like ICE owners do! Why does gas cost so much? It's robbery! No one will pay that much for gas! people will just stop driving so much and not go anywhere! Now we get to hear it from EV drivers too! Yet, when it all boils down, We get used to the price and decide to do what we want to anyway, no matter the cost, we just complain a bit louder until we get used to seeing the numbers. Then after a while, as prices get higher, we suddenly rejoice when they go back down to the price we screamed about before and are happy to pay the 'lower' price....
I bought my FFE for the non-gas feature. It does not pollute as much as gasoline, it is better overall for the environment.(and it's fun to drive) One could argue that the batteries contain toxins, are expensive and also cause environmental damage in the extraction of the materials needed to make them, but it is still less damaging than oil production and has a greater capability for recycling than burning fossil fuels, so I can justify it over using gas. The fact that it also is cheaper than gas is a bonus, not a requirement for ownership. I drive mine because it doesn't burn gas. If it cost the same as driving a gas powered car, so be it, it is still better for the environment and that matters to me. If I could, I would have solar power for my home and charging the car batteries, but as a renter and being very limited in my budget, I cannot achieve that goal yet. I hope to some day. So if pay to charge is more costly, so be it. Someone will gladly pay because it is still better than burning fuel and every little bit we can do to lessen our impact on the environment is more important than a few dollars cost.

Rogerschro said:

I see we can now whine on about cost of 'refueling' just like ICE owners do! Why does gas cost so much? It's robbery! No one will pay that much for gas! people will just stop driving so much and not go anywhere! Now we get to hear it from EV drivers too!

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You are ignoring the "elephant in the room": Home charging. The vast majority of EV drivers these days charge up at home. So far there hasn't been much complaints about the cost of that.
Unlike an ICE which cannot "fuel up" at home, most of us leave with a "full tank" and rarely even need to use a public charger and, consequently, don't complain about the price of public charging. In addition, I don't think there has been that much "complaining", its more of a discussion about what the "proper" price should be and/or if a station owner would purposely set a price too high to discourage its use.
(BTW: All but a few public charge stations around me are currently free...not going to complain about that.)

I'm annoyed at the Blink rate increase, as the company has the most chargers that are convenient to my location. It's not too big of a deal for me though, as there are a few free chargers and several ChargePoint chargers that are easily accessible. The ChargePoint ones I've used are anywhere from $0.49 to $1.00 per hour, depending on location.

You are ignoring the "elephant in the room": Home charging. The vast majority of EV drivers these days charge up at home. So far there hasn't been much complaints about the cost of that.
Unlike an ICE which cannot "fuel up" at home, most of us leave with a "full tank" and rarely even need to use a public charger and, consequently, don't complain about the price of public charging. In addition, I don't think there has been that much "complaining", its more of a discussion about what the "proper" price should be and/or if a station owner would purposely set a price too high to discourage its use.
(BTW: All but a few public charge stations around me are currently free...not going to complain about that.)[/quote]

:lol: Never mind me, I'm just being contrary! I have Just bought my FFE, and have yet to drive it anywhere I need to recharge. I'm sure I will have range anxiety when I eventually do. It is great that we can charge at home and at lower costs than relying on charge stations away from home. Funny thing is, there is a gas station directly across from my Apartment, so getting fuel was never an issue and was always convenient. Another funny thing is since I bought my FFE I have watched gas prices go from $3.59/g down to $$2.96 currently! What's up with that??? :x :lol:

Right now I am driving with different conditions and with various stuff on or off such as heat, AC, radio, etc. and sometimes with a lead foot, or conservatively to see how it affects range just to get a feel of what to expect and how to gauge the potential range. Funny how now I can drive aggressively at times and not worry about the cost compared to when I had an ICE Focus where I was mostly conservative in my driving, not wanting to waste fuel. It's fun to 'let it out' at times, but mostly I am pretty easy on my cars.

Being in the midwest, where we are always three years behind technology adoption, it is hard to find convenient charging stations where I wish to go. Just having them would be nice, worrying about cost is secondary when there isn't one to begin with. But I am seeing a few pop up around here as time goes by so in three years There should be a few near me I could use!

Rogerschro said:

Another funny thing is since I bought my FFE I have watched gas prices go from $3.59/g down to $$2.96 currently! What's up with that???

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Back when we first purchased our F-350 (now gone) gas prices went the other way!

Right now I am driving with different conditions and with various stuff on or off such as heat, AC, radio, etc. and sometimes with a lead foot, or conservatively to see how it affects range just to get a feel of what to expect and how to gauge the potential range.

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More data! This screams for a spreadsheet and to be published around here!

unplugged said:

I have always supported charging something because it often keeps people that don't absolutely need the charge away. For instance, I see so many Plug in Priuses in California that just want to show everyone they have an "electric" car, so they plug in for hours. These folks don't have a plug-in, they have a hybrid with a plug in it. So when the PiPs see a charging unit that actually costs $1, they think twice. So charging for a charge isn't such a bad thing when the cost is reasonable.

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I totally agree with that. Recently I was at the Sherman Oaks Mall where they have two free charging spots. One was occupied by a Porsche Panamera plug in. $96,000 with a 333 HP gas engine and the owner just HAD to plug in.

I'll bet very, very few plug-in-Prius cars ever get plugged in except to take advantage of premium parking spots. At home? I'll bet almost never.

michael said:

I'll bet very, very few plug-in-Prius cars ever get plugged in except to take advantage of premium parking spots. At home? I'll bet almost never.

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Toyota even has a commercial to say that the PiP doesn't need to be plugged in.
https://transportevolved.com/2014/08/27/toyotas-choices-plug-prius-ad-truthful-anti-ev

Rogerschro said:

Another funny thing is since I bought my FFE I have watched gas prices go from $3.59/g down to $$2.96 currently! What's up with that???!

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I know we have more gas tax here, but it's been at $3.81 here in L.A. for the last couple of weeks. Just before that (right before I bought my FFE), I had to put gas in my ICE vehicle, and it was $4.09 (it uses premium).

WattsUp said:

hybridbear said:

My tires are inflated to 45 PSI. My Lifetime Wh/mi is 199 in about 200 miles now. My Wh/mi in city driving is frequently less than 170.

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Ah... mine are at the recommended 38 PSI. Does the extra 7 PSI make that much difference?

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So, I've been running 45 PSI for a little while too now.

My previous (38 PSI) average Wh/mi was always about the "typical" 250 or so. My full charge range estimates were commensurately in the "standard" range of 75-85 miles, depending on whether I'd been a bit zippy or zen.

My new (45 PSI) average Wh/mi is about 220 (for the same general driving patterns; namely, my commute). My FFE now frequently estimates full charge ranges in the high 80s to occasionally over 100 miles. Once, it was 107 miles (although clearly that was an outlier).

So, I would say running with a higher PSI can make a real difference. Going by the average Wh/mi, it reduced my FFE energy usage (to travel the same distances with the same driving style) by about 12%, which means it may have effectively increased my maximum range by 12%, or around 10 additional miles on average.

I'll take them!

I pumped up my tires to 45 PSI the night I read Hybrid's post. Good to know it makes a difference!

I haven't been able to ever get down lower than 260Wh/m average on my trips with my new FFE even short distance surface streets.
I seem to be getting reasonable regeneration miles and good 90%+ braking scores too on surface streets.
With mostly freeway at 65mph cruise control I end up usually with around 280Wh/m average.
So I only get typical estimated ranges in the low 70s miles, never got 80mile+
Could my HV battery have low capacity or something?
I tried inflating my tires higher to 42psi, but no noticeable change in range for my usual trips last week for me.

NightHawk said:

So I only get typical estimated ranges in the low 70s miles, never got 80mile+
Could my HV battery have low capacity or something?

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No, at 260 Wh/mi, I would expect fully charged range estimates in the low 70s.

By consensus, the usable battery capacity of the FFE seems to be about 18.5 kWh. So, you can estimate the fully charged range roughly the same way the car does; it's just simple division:

18500 Wh / 260 Wh/mile = 71 miles.

Hmm, if you've got pretty good Brake Coach scores and even over-inflated your tires, the most likely thing is that you're simply driving too fast to keep your Wh/mi below 260. Speed really kills range because the power required to go each successive 1 MPH faster increases exponentially (mainly because wind resistance increases exponentially with speed). So, slow down a little and you'll dramatically reduce the energy required to travel the same distance.

Are you running the climate control a lot? A/C takes a bit of power, but could still elevate your Wh/mi if you use it all the time. But, heat takes a ton of power (up to about 5 kW when running full blast) and is the other major thing (besides speed) that will kill your range if you use it a lot.

Also, try to use cruise control everywhere you need to maintain at a steady speed, not just on the freeway. I've totally made it a habit, even between lights. Try to increase regeneration opportunities by beginning your slow down well before the next stop (sometimes you can't if somebody is on your tail), but try to be aware of when you can (easy when it there is nobody to bother). In general, try to maximize the amount of time your foot is off the accelerator.

Btw, all the other accessories (lights, heated seats, wipers, radio, etc.) use negligible amount of power and do not affect range.

I was in a position where I needed to conserve, not a lot but some. So I was watching wh/mi very closely on a very long flat highway. The difference between 66 and 70 was huge. Way bigger than I would ever imagine. And drafting trucks at a safe distance - around the 6 car length zone, also made a very big difference. The things you'll do when you're bored driving a long way by yourself.

The two things you are probably doing: 90% brake coach is still not very good (WattsUp was being nice). Hit 100% every time. I think you will see a big improvement.

And reduce your highway speed. The amount of time it takes you to get where you are going between 65 and say 62 is negligible. You won't notice the time difference. Even 64 would make an energy difference.

WattsUp said:

Hmm, if you've got pretty good Brake Coach scores and even over-inflated your tires, the most likely thing is that you're simply driving too fast to keep your Wh/mi below 260. Speed really kills range because the power required to go each successive 1 MPH faster increases exponentially (mainly because wind resistance increases exponentially with speed). So, slow down a little and you'll dramatically reduce the energy required to travel the same distance.

Are you running the climate control a lot? A/C takes a bit of power, but could still elevate your Wh/mi if you use it all the time. But, heat takes a ton of power (up to about 5 kW when running full blast) and is the other major thing (besides speed) that will kill your range if you use it a lot.

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Even with trips to local stores on surface streets 25-45mph not fast I still can't get much below 260 Wh/mi.
Climate control at very low power, low speed fan a/c off usually.
I've often getting 95% brake scores.
Freeway driving I've been using cruise control at ~65mph, that gets me 280Wh/mi

This was my trip log results for a recent drive to a home depot store from my house and back about 2miles away.
Lots of downhill leaving my house giving lower Wh/mi but coming home its uphill so it goes way up.


This recent trip log was for an almost 20mile drive to the Ford dealership using a back route with less freeway driving.
A/C was on low but I monitored climate control load on the MyView display and it was very small.
I worked hard to keep speed down and lots of coasting so its typical of the best I can get - this gives me estimated full battery ranges in the low 70s.

Rogerschro said:

Another funny thing is since I bought my FFE I have watched gas prices go from $3.59/g down to $$2.96 currently! What's up with that???!

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:lol: I was thinking that too. When I ordered mine in July gas was $3.59 and I paid 2.80 to fill up today. I saw it 5 cents cheaper earlier but didn't think to stop then...

I've noticed gas prices seem to often drop like this during an election year. I wouldn't be surprised if it shoots back up after the election. I've also heard that it's rumored to be the U.S. "friends" in OPEC increasing production to depress oil prices to hurt Russia over the whole Ukraine brouhaha.

NightHawk said:

This was my trip log results for a recent drive to a home depot store from my house and back about 2miles away.
Lots of downhill leaving my house giving lower Wh/mi but coming home its uphill so it goes way up.

This recent trip log was for an almost 20mile drive to the Ford dealership using a back route with less freeway driving.
A/C was on low but I monitored climate control load on the MyView display and it was very small.
I worked hard to keep speed down and lots of coasting so its typical of the best I can get - this gives me estimated full battery ranges in the low 70s.

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'Driving scores' reflect some secret formula combining acceleration, braking, and cruising. There is a left-of-wheel energy display, I believe, showing bars for each of these. The score can be earned in the mid 90s without much difficulty. Your score around 80 with pretty good braking scores and non-highway speeds probably means you could be doing better on your accelerating. Pull up the screen on your next few drives and see what you need to do to make those bars fill up. I would be willing to bet your acceleration bar shows a lot of room for improvement. If you accelerate vigorously during highway driving, you keep your momentum so it hardly affects energy use. But if you accelerate even just a little too hard, only to stop 1/4 mile later at a red light, and repeat this over 5 miles, you've left a lot of energy out there that can't get recouped.
If your braking percentile is around 95%, bringing it up to 100% will help some, but I don't think that's the main issue. Anyway, if your area is very hilly, you may not be able to safely get 100% braking scores. My area is flat but on some steeper downhill expressway offramps, I can't possibly decelerate gradually enough to obtain 100% without being rear-ended or at least really angering my fellow motorists.

dmen said:

NightHawk said:

This was my trip log results for a recent drive to a home depot store from my house and back about 2miles away.
Lots of downhill leaving my house giving lower Wh/mi but coming home its uphill so it goes way up.

This recent trip log was for an almost 20mile drive to the Ford dealership using a back route with less freeway driving.
A/C was on low but I monitored climate control load on the MyView display and it was very small.
I worked hard to keep speed down and lots of coasting so its typical of the best I can get - this gives me estimated full battery ranges in the low 70s.

Click to expand...

'Driving scores' reflect some secret formula combining acceleration, braking, and cruising. There is a left-of-wheel energy display, I believe, showing bars for each of these. The score can be earned in the mid 90s without much difficulty. Your score around 80 with pretty good braking scores and non-highway speeds probably means you could be doing better on your accelerating. Pull up the screen on your next few drives and see what you need to do to make those bars fill up. I would be willing to bet your acceleration bar shows a lot of room for improvement. If you accelerate vigorously during highway driving, you keep your momentum so it hardly affects energy use. But if you accelerate even just a little too hard, only to stop 1/4 mile later at a red light, and repeat this over 5 miles, you've left a lot of energy out there that can't get recouped.
If your braking percentile is around 95%, bringing it up to 100% will help some, but I don't think that's the main issue. Anyway, if your area is very hilly, you may not be able to safely get 100% braking scores. My area is flat but on some steeper downhill expressway offramps, I can't possibly decelerate gradually enough to obtain 100% without being rear-ended or at least really angering my fellow motorists.

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This was my thought too. For all city trips I usually have a driving score of 99 or 100. On freeway trips it's usually 90-95. One frequent trip we make which is a mix of city and 55-60 MPH freeway driving sees consistent 92-94 driving scores for me and consistent 80-85 driving scores for my wife. That explains why her average Wh/mi consumption in MFM is 10-15% higher than mine.