70 mile round trip commute... On the edge?

EVA said:

El - 2 miles left? Man you were just asking for it. I got nervous when I had 20 left.

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Well I started driving 80-85 about 30 miles outside of Charlotte to burn off my buffer I built up (rated == total distance at the start). And I might of 'missed' the correct exit to add on about 1.5 miles to get down as low as I could. It was pretty much planned.

As for Atlanta my commute (25 or 30 miles) is much more consistent, ~35 minutes AM and ~40 minutes PM, using the interstate (but I drive on clear interstates), save the couple times a month where there is a crash and then +50-100% transit times. Doing surface streets my commute is much more variable ~30-40 minutes AM and ~35-45 minutes PM. But my variability is less (unless that interstate crash is on the ~7 miles of interstate I hit no matter what). Not to mention with range concerns I start to drive slow (55) on the interstate, it really adds minutes versus my normal 75-80 cruise. Surface streets are your friend in an EV.

The last few weeks I have been driving ~90 miles Tuesday and Thursday going to soccer without charging. I'm not using AC. I got caught in a thunderstorm and some street flooding last Thursday and had to use the AC for defogging. I ended up getting home with single digits, but had a negative number on the dash for quite some time. I had banked an extra 10 miles before it started raining. If it stayed raining my drive back I would have been really close to not making it. Weather changes can really hurt if you are running close to the edge.

70 miles in the winter in a FFE sounds like you would have to work hard every commute to keep the consumption down. And rain with cold could become a real problem. You wouldn't be able to run the heat at all. In Atlanta (if you can park in the sun) this isn't too big a deal most days. But the sub-freezing days (and rainy ones) I would think plugging in at work (120V is fine) would really be needed to feel comfortable.

As for range when you get home. You can install a 7kW EVSE and get 20-30 miles pretty quickly once you get home to run errands or go out with friends. Or if you are a 2 car family (like I am) you can just take the Model S or [insert other vehicle with some range left at the end of the day] when you go out for Trivia and pizza or soccer practice.

If you can steal a 120 plug the couple of times you need it in the winter then go for it, or even a public EVSE at lunch should suffice. If you have 50% or more on your pack when you leave in the afternoon you are almost always golden (unless there is an elevation issue) because it is warmer in the afternoon and it is a bit easier to keep the energy use down.

Also not that in Atlanta your GOM is going to be all over the place with the elevation we deal with. On one of my commute routes I will go from -2miles, to +9miles, back to -4miles, then +2miles on the last 4 miles of my commute going home. So you need to be comfortable seeing minus, and really gaging elevation and whatnot.

jmueller065 said:

hybridbear said:

Are you referring to the increased aerodynamic drag from cold air causing this? Or the fact that when the HVB temp drops it doesn't have as much energy available? I'm really curious to see how we fare for range etc in winter. Since we park in a heated, underground garage which is heated to 55 F the HVB should never get cold to have a lower ETE that way. Our tires also stay warmer which means they flex better. But none of that combats the increased aerodynamic drag from cold, dense air.

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(Answering for EVA): Below 45 degrees, heated garage or not, the battery doesn't perform as well as 70+, in addition the TMS runs to heat the battery also reducing range. For last winter my car was parked outside up until February. After late February it was kept in our garage (which, I guess you could say, is "heated"--its attached to our house and even when the temps were <<0F outside the garage never dipped below freezing). I really didn't notice a difference in performance between the two (using go times to heat the car to 85F outside vs the same in a garage). Once the car is outside things start to get cold fast.

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Thanks JMueller, you got exactly what I meant.

Yeah - all those other things are minor annoyances - rounding error in the energy equation (wind resistance, tire flexing, listening to music, turning on the headlights, et al). It is heating the interior of the car and possibly the TMS kicking in to heat the battery that kill range.

Hello everyone!

Thank you all so very much for your insight. Frankly, it was your "can do" attitude that convinced us that doing the commute in a FFE was feasible (no such optimism on the Leaf forum).

We put the deposit down on a 2014 Ice Storm Metallic yesterday. So happy that we found a dealer that was willing to bring a car in from another dealer to sell to us so we didn't have to deal with the one dealer in Georgia that has 2014 inventory on the lot.

The FFE will be my primary commuter; but we won't be getting rid of the old 2002 BMW 530i with 200K+ miles on it. I'll still drive it on the cold days or the days where I want to take a long side trip on the way home.

Since I routinely run my gas tank down to fumes, I'll probably have EISupreme's attitude about single digits and negative numbers pretty soon. I first need to get a feel for how conditions and behaviors impact range.

Look for me in the right lane on I-75 going 60 MPH!

Jenny

Fantastic. I might add rainy days as a time to leave the FFE. Our trip to the campground for this weekend was about 72 miles and we wouldn't have made it without stopping to charge on the way since we were driving in heavy rain and temps in the 40s. We stopped and charged at a Goodwill on the way for 24 minutes according to MFM and got 2.4 kWh according to the GE WattStation which got us on the campsite with the GOM showing 5 miles and the settings screen showing an SOC of 5%. The GOM showed 5 miles when we were about 5 miles from the park but once we slowed down driving through the State Park it remained steady at 5 miles all the way to the campsite.

That's great, Jenny!

Glad to hear you've discovered a number of charging opportunities along your commute, thanks to EVA's advice regarding plugshare.

If you haven't done so already, I strongly suggest that prior to your first electric commute, drive by the EVSEs you may have to rely on in the unlikely event you find yourself short on charge. Some may be inoperable or crowded, and others may be a short walk to a Starbuck's or fast food joint where you can kill a half hour quite painlessly.

Also - please don't be stupid like I was on my first electric commute! For me, it took that first commute to make the transition from "range anxiety" to true "range awareness":

http://ev-vin.blogspot.com/2013/10/charge-depleted.html

You sound a lot smarter than me so I predict you'll be fine!

Since then, I haven't had another spell of "range stupidity", despite countless episodes of running down to single-digit range in the FFE and RAV4 EV.

Congratulations Jenny. Enjoy the car.

Hello everyone,

I thought I'd give an update based on my first commute with my new FFE. In short:

I'm THRILLED!

I started with a full charge, jmueller065's set-up with the cup on the left-hand side and a change in commute attitude. I arrived at work with a +24 surplus and at home in the evening with a +27 surplus. All this with a gentle foot on the accelerator, restraint on the open road and attention to climate control. As an added bonus, I thoroughly enjoyed the HOV lane now and again as well.

Bottom line, there seems to be enough range wiggle room in my 65 mile round trip, no-charge-until-I'm-home commute for heat, side trips and the occasional speed rush (as long as it's not too cold or wet ;-) ).

Jenny

Great! Here is to good commuting...

Awesome, Jenny! What was the ambient temperature to and from work? Average speed and max speed? Regen efficiency?

Hey v_traveller!

It was your first commute lesson that made me chill my jets. Thanks!

Ambient temps have been optimal. 50's to mid 40's in the morning. Upper 60's to low-70's in the evening.

Regen efficiency is at about 94% (I'm still learning to pay attention :shock: )

I realize that when I have my first cold, wet commute things will look different. The almost 30 mile buffer is giving me significant comfort.

Jenny

Cool! With the ample margin you have right now, I'm betting that you'll be fine through winter. With any luck, the climate will change gradually so you can develop a sense for the range degradation based on drop in temperature. Keep us posted!

Hello,

Our first week of owning a FFE has ended. We put 460 miles on the car with an average 220.3 Wh/mile consumption. I get home from my 67 no-charge-at-work round trip with between 16 and 24 miles in reserve. I'm enjoying the change in driving attitude and have discovered the joys of the HOV lane (especially for getting through the Downtown Connector in Atlanta). Now, if I can only get used to the sight of a Ford F150 looming larger than life in my rear view mirror, my commute stress levels would be way down.

Here's what I've learned (a final summary for my last post in this tread):

1) Range is all about your behavior; on the accelerator, with the climate control and planning your day.
2) What isn't about behavior is about ambient temperatures or topography. There's only so much you can control.
3) Heavy traffic is good! I LOVE braking regeneration.
4) A Level 2 charger is a requirement (still waiting on the Juice Box to arrive). L1 only gets me from ca. 20%-90% in 12 hrs. Enough for my commute; no more.
5) The changes I've made in my driving have reduced my commute stress. Change is good.
6) Having fun driving this car on the weekends drives your average consumption up.
7) It helps being a little bit of a geek to fully leverage all the capabilities of the software on this thing.
8) Attitude matters. It's not hard to make it work... it's even fun; but you have to want to.
9) The members of this forum are supportive and a source of experienced advice.
10) You become an advocate, fanatic and a champion of EVs... there's no turning back!

Range happy!

Jenny

+100

One of the best happy posts on this forum. All excellent points. Thanks Jenny - glad you are having a good time.

I just completed my first 74mile round trip! It went fine. After reading all this commentary and how others experiences went I felt pretty confident I would have no problems. I live south of Dayton Ohio. I went to a friends north of Dayton. The trip was 3mi. city streets to interstate, 26 miles interstate @ 60+ and 8 miles of surface streets, mostly 35mph. Reverse for return trip. I didn't need the heat or ac but did use the radio. Dayton sits in a bowl so it is down hill (rolling) into dayton,using I675 and 35, then a long drag up I75 out of Dayton toward I70, then a couple big rollers on I70 exiting onto Rt. 48 and to my friends, mostly uphill but mild grades.
I started the adventure with 106 showing on a full charge. From reading, I know 80 +/- was more realistic and with mostly highway, more likely 75+/-. It was worth the risk. I also knew I could either borrow electric at my friends or use the surface streets (Rt. 48) for the return trip and make it back if it proved to be too far using the interstate. I arrived at my destination with 43 left on the GOM and battery reading about half. That told me I could expect to get back home with about 15 miles left on the GOM. Heading home it was dark so headlights and radio, no other accessories on. I pulled in with 15 miles left! Good guess! I feel confident I could make the trip with some heat or ac running but not too much. The ambient temp for the driving was around 53 degrees.
Over all, having my first trip at a longer range, I feel confident in assessing the range abilities given input from all the members here and my own drive yesterday. Knowing the terrain and route options helps too in determining what to expect from the conditions available. I think in the winter I would use the surface route to my friends. It is only 29 miles, so would get me there with less miles and less energy, allowing heat and ac for comfort if needed. It also only adds about 10 minutes to the drive.

After charging last night my GOM reads 96 miles . Slightly more realistic...

Hi Jenny
Welcome to the East Cobb FFE club. I just swapped a Leaf for an FFE in late October and am loving it. I work from home so no range issues. I love the FFE compared to the Leaf outside of a few minor items.

Have you received your L2 charger yet? I've been using the Blink I got with my Leaf. Works great and the FFE charges quickly thanks to its 6.6kw charger. Agree with you about regeneration. Seems much better in the FFE versus the Leaf

Enjoy

OK... I thought it might be helpful to update based on the recent weather we've been having in Atlanta; cold (by our standards) and wet. Cold can mean in the 20's in the morning and 30's in the evening. I start my commute out of the garage with the car all nicely warmed up. On the way home, it is cold. Range is less on cold days but I do make it home with a few miles to spare. I have fuzzy boots, glove and a good coat; and run the defroster intermittently so I can see. I haven't left my FFE home yet!

The Juice Box has been installed for a while, and works great!

We bought our FFE in the middle of October and it already has a little over 4700 miles on it. I did say it's my daily commuter, didn't I?

Range happy!

Jenny

jenjc said:

run the defroster intermittently so I can see.

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A couple of things you can do to simply keep the windows frost free without having to turn the defroster on/off while you are driving (since you already are wearing the winter gear LOL):

• Turn the temp all the way down to "LO" and just leave the defroster running with the fan on its lowest setting (the range will drop on the GOM simply because you have the defroster on but if you look at the climate consumption it will remain at nearly zero)
  Crack open the drivers window about a 1/4" to 1/2" (this works well for temps above 20F or so; below 20F the window still fogs and you get really cold)

If the commute is cutting is close, why not stop on the way and charge for an extra 10-20 miles?