2014 Ford Focus joins my 2012 LEAF as my only cars.

michael said:

Hey...where are you? I live in West LA, work in Simi. You can try mine out no prob.

When I test drove one originally, I noticed the torque steer, mine had some but not as much, now barely detectable.


Here's a video about torque steer and it's diagnosis and correction....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_M5tZfCHG0

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Thanks Michael. I am in Camarillo. The car is at the dealership and they still haven't given any answers. Will see what they say tomorrow.
I'm crossing my fingers.

ElSupreme said:

You knock the Focus for not putting enough power down, then say it chirps tires. You get to pick one or the other not both.

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Actually, this part isn't really hyperbole. I've had chirps after I get a little speed going and accelerating out of my neighborhood. 10 or less I think, I haven't watched that closely but I'm making a 90 degree turn from/through a stop sign, so it can't be very fast. But from a dead stop it's not very quick.

unplugged said:

ELROY said:

I do wish that car wasn't so slow off the line as to be irritating. For all those supposed sport enthusiasts in here, how do you like it when your Focus can't even catch a LEAF from a standstill in the quarter mile?

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I stopped engaging in street drag racing when I was around 18. On the other hand, I do appreciate a car that can thread the needle in traffic and respond instantly between 20 and 60 mph. THAT is the acceleration that really counts.

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Missed this earlier, but this is exactly my thought about the speed difference. Frankly, I don't think I've EVER raced anyone for a 1/4 mile, and I certainly wouldn't bother racing with anything that wasn't even sort of a race car.

The point of the FFE isn't to be a muscle car. The Model S is, to some extent, racy, but I wouldn't put anything that comes with 4 doors in a race. To continue belaboring which BEV is faster, or better at a 1/4 mile, is to miss the point of what a BEV is in today's market.

Check back in 5 or 10 years, when there are more than a handful of models and they've gotten somewhat stratified for purpose. Right now there's the luxury Model S, and then the rest at a far lower quality of pretty much everything. Until we have trucks and SUVs and sports coupes along with sedans of varying sizes, nitpicking between the models is almost splitting hairs.

Elroy, you already had a LEAF, and went ahead and got an FFE. Did you not test drive it first? Same for the folks that didn't notice a problem @ 60mph until the next day: how does one commit to a multi-thousand dollar purchase (or lease) without thoroughly kicking the wheels on a sample model, and especially of the model you're looking to take home? And if you noticed the problem beforehand, why get it? If you tested but didn't notice, what does that say about you? If it suddenly developed a problem, then it's not the model as a whole, it's the one car. And if a truly significant number of cars were reporting the same problem, we'd hear a lot more about it through reviews and news.

This is still all pointing back to a specific problem you're having, but generalizing for the entire model, which is really the part that is making folks defensive. If you specified your experience with YOUR car, who are we to argue? In fact, with the right approach, folks would probably be more interested - and friendly - about trying to help solve your specific problem.

As ironic as it may seem, I read the glowing review in Car and Driver, and figured it was a safe bet to buy one. I figured with all the superlatives they gave the Focus, it Certainly had to be better than the fourth place LEAF which I already owned. Should have known better, as Car and Driver has typically been anti-EV, focusing mainly on track performance, rather than smoothness, cargo room, or refinement. Hence, they picked the Spark as first place, even with its diminutive dimensions and relatively plastic interior.

On another topic: When I fully charged the Focus, reset the trip meter, and ran it down to 0 miles remaining. The kWh used was right at 20kWh. So I figured this to be the usable capacity of the pack. Is this accurate? I have heard others say it is around 18.x kWh, etc. FYI: My LEAF pack is degraded about 14% at 18000 miles. This however is with 177 40kw quick charging sessions. My available capacity right now is about 17.8kWh. I can still get 60-66 miles on it though compared to 60 miles with the Focus. I think this is mainly because I always run the A/C, and the Focus takes the bigger hit from its more inefficient A/C system. For those of you running your A/C all the time, is your range right around 60 miles too? Averaging about 330 watt hour per mile. Makes sense though, at about 3kWh/mi x 20kWh capacity=About 60 miles. On a 60 mile trip to Los Angeles, it is fairly easy to average 4.0 mi/kWh (250 watts/mi) in the LEAF on the highway doing 65mph for the entire trip. Not so easy to achieve in the Focus on the highway using the A/C. anyone else with some numbers to share I this regard?

Are you running your A/C on auto with a temp set? If so don't: that is the most wasteful method. It is much more efficient to set the temp on LO and manually control the fan speed--you'll burn a lot less electrons (like <300 Wh/mile) that way. When set to automatic the FFE will use the heater if the interior temp goes below the set point which really consumes a ton of electricity (5+ kW).

ELROY said:

ElSupreme said:

Knock it off with the hyperbole.

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The quarter mile trap speed is a better indicator of a car's power to weight ratio, and roll on acceleration. The Tesla runs low 12's. Which is barely on par with my 2011 335d diesel. It ran a 12.3 qtr mile, and 0-60 in 3.9 seconds. Also got 45mpg on the highway. For my cars that ran around 130mph in the qtr mile, the Tesla would need to find an extra 20mph or 200+ HP somewhere to keep up with that trap speed. The 2014 M5 I was driving, and the tuned E63, makes the Tesla look like it is standing still. Don't believe me? Look at my videos on youtube (Hotrod182), I personally took a video of a P85 doing 0-70mph. Then compare it to my other car videos. The Tesla is very slow in comparison. Some of my cars did 60-130 in under 7 seconds. (Faster than a ZR1). The 60-130 time of a Tesla would be a joke comparatively speaking.

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So you haven't driven one then. Due to a single speed gear reduction the top speed of the Model S is only 130mph. It isn't power limited let me tell you, it is rev limited. The Model S starts to drop off about 100mph which is more than enough for anything but a race course/drag strip.

jmueller065 said:

Are you running your A/C on auto with a temp set? If so don't: that is the most wasteful method. It is much more efficient to set the temp on LO and manually control the fan speed--you'll burn a lot less electrons (like <300 Wh/mile) that way. When set to automatic the FFE will use the heater if the interior temp goes below the set point which really consumes a ton of electricity (5+ kW).

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I run it on LO temp and set the fan speed. I do turn it off occasionally when it's cold enough.

ElSupreme said:

ELROY said:

ElSupreme said:

Knock it off with the hyperbole.

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The quarter mile trap speed is a better indicator of a car's power to weight ratio, and roll on acceleration. The Tesla runs low 12's. Which is barely on par with my 2011 335d diesel. It ran a 12.3 qtr mile, and 0-60 in 3.9 seconds. Also got 45mpg on the highway. For my cars that ran around 130mph in the qtr mile, the Tesla would need to find an extra 20mph or 200+ HP somewhere to keep up with that trap speed. The 2014 M5 I was driving, and the tuned E63, makes the Tesla look like it is standing still. Don't believe me? Look at my videos on youtube (Hotrod182), I personally took a video of a P85 doing 0-70mph. Then compare it to my other car videos. The Tesla is very slow in comparison. Some of my cars did 60-130 in under 7 seconds. (Faster than a ZR1). The 60-130 time of a Tesla would be a joke comparatively speaking.

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So you haven't driven one then. Due to a single speed gear reduction the top speed of the Model S is only 130mph. It isn't power limited let me tell you, it is rev limited. The Model S starts to drop off about 100mph which is more than enough for anything but a race course/drag strip.

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As stated above, I drove one extensively, and took a video of one of my 0-70mph runs. It is impressive, but obviously doesn't accelerate like lighter, 600-700+HP AMG or M5 on a roll.

ELROY said:

As ironic as it may seem, I read the glowing review in Car and Driver, and figured it was a safe bet to buy one. I figured with all the superlatives they gave the Focus, it Certainly had to be better than the fourth place LEAF which I already owned. Should have known better, as Car and Driver has typically been anti-EV, focusing mainly on track performance, rather than smoothness, cargo room, or refinement. Hence, they picked the Spark as first place, even with its diminutive dimensions and relatively plastic interior.

On another topic: When I fully charged the Focus, reset the trip meter, and ran it down to 0 miles remaining. The kWh used was right at 20kWh. So I figured this to be the usable capacity of the pack. Is this accurate? I have heard others say it is around 18.x kWh, etc. FYI: My LEAF pack is degraded about 14% at 18000 miles. This however is with 177 40kw quick charging sessions. My available capacity right now is about 17.8kWh. I can still get 60-66 miles on it though compared to 60 miles with the Focus. I think this is mainly because I always run the A/C, and the Focus takes the bigger hit from its more inefficient A/C system. For those of you running your A/C all the time, is your range right around 60 miles too? Averaging about 330 watt hour per mile. Makes sense though, at about 3kWh/mi x 20kWh capacity=About 60 miles. On a 60 mile trip to Los Angeles, it is fairly easy to average 4.0 mi/kWh (250 watts/mi) in the LEAF on the highway doing 65mph for the entire trip. Not so easy to achieve in the Focus on the highway using the A/C. anyone else with some numbers to share I this regard?

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I run the AC when it's hot, generally set to 72 and run the fan at 2 or 3 bars (but as noted above, I avoid using the heater needlessly) My long-term average is about 270 Wh/mile with 90% freeway driving at 60-70 mph. 330 sounds high.

My numbers are typically 18.5kWh/270 Wh/mil = 68 miles range

My torque steer is pretty bad, I'm going to see if an alignment will help. Any chance getting this covered under warranty?

michael said:

ELROY said:

As ironic as it may seem, I read the glowing review in Car and Driver, and figured it was a safe bet to buy one. I figured with all the superlatives they gave the Focus, it Certainly had to be better than the fourth place LEAF which I already owned. Should have known better, as Car and Driver has typically been anti-EV, focusing mainly on track performance, rather than smoothness, cargo room, or refinement. Hence, they picked the Spark as first place, even with its diminutive dimensions and relatively plastic interior.

On another topic: When I fully charged the Focus, reset the trip meter, and ran it down to 0 miles remaining. The kWh used was right at 20kWh. So I figured this to be the usable capacity of the pack. Is this accurate? I have heard others say it is around 18.x kWh, etc. FYI: My LEAF pack is degraded about 14% at 18000 miles. This however is with 177 40kw quick charging sessions. My available capacity right now is about 17.8kWh. I can still get 60-66 miles on it though compared to 60 miles with the Focus. I think this is mainly because I always run the A/C, and the Focus takes the bigger hit from its more inefficient A/C system. For those of you running your A/C all the time, is your range right around 60 miles too? Averaging about 330 watt hour per mile. Makes sense though, at about 3kWh/mi x 20kWh capacity=About 60 miles. On a 60 mile trip to Los Angeles, it is fairly easy to average 4.0 mi/kWh (250 watts/mi) in the LEAF on the highway doing 65mph for the entire trip. Not so easy to achieve in the Focus on the highway using the A/C. anyone else with some numbers to share I this regard?

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I run the AC when it's hot, generally set to 72 and run the fan at 2 or 3 bars (but as noted above, I avoid using the heater needlessly) My long-term average is about 270 Wh/mile with 90% freeway driving at 60-70 mph. 330 sounds high.

My numbers are typically 18.5kWh/270 Wh/mil = 68 miles range

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I actually drove 25 miles the other morning 1/2 in town, and half on the highway. Averaged 225 wh/mi. But that was a only a test, and not representative of my normal drive. But it seems that 60 miles will be my normal range at around 330wh/mi. At least I am hoping the battery doesn't have significant deterioration.

kmaluo said:

My torque steer is pretty bad, I'm going to see if an alignment will help. Any chance getting this covered under warranty?

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My car only has 600 miles on it, so the alignment was going to be covered under warranty.
I just called the dealership to find out what was going on with my car.
My advisor said that my car "definitely has a problem", and that they are going to replace the whole steering column. Parts are on order. Will probably be Thursday before I hear any more details.

I wonder if the steering column is the whole EPS system?

Kind of a bummer a new car has this problem.
On the other hand, kind of relieved that the problem will most likely be resolved.

6pm update: The service cashier told me that the part on order is called a steering gearbox.
Probably a fairly expensive unit I would guess...

Hope that solves your problem. I'm pretty sure you'll come around to seeing the good side of the FFE once you have a normal experience with it.

Abelgoddard said:

Hope that solves your problem. I'm pretty sure you'll come around to seeing the good side of the FFE once you have a normal experience with it.

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I do miss having it here, it's a nice looking car. I have the pearl white with newly tinted windows. Well, when I get it back it will be like having a new car all over again!

Hope your dealership fixes the problem.
Other than what I assume is torque steer- when accelerating hard into a turn, the car tends to hold its trajectory rather than righting its direction- I have appreciated sure responsive steering in my 1.5 years with the FFE. I would like a tighter turning radius, though. Some parking garages are tough to navigate without sharper turning.

One quick quibble with your original post: if you are comparing a 2012 Leaf, the cargo space size is the same as an FFE. You might find the layout of the Leaf's hatch better suited to your needs, but volume is 14.5 cubic feet for both, if I'm not mistaken. I personally find the larger footprint of the FFE more suited to my uses, namely backpacks and grocery bags, than the shallower but taller space of the original Leaf. I fit 4 paper sacks on each tier of the trunk, whereas they'd have to be sitting on top of each other in the Leaf. But to each their own!

dmen said:

Hope your dealership fixes the problem.
Other than what I assume is torque steer- when accelerating hard into a turn, the car tends to hold its trajectory rather than righting its direction- I have appreciated sure responsive steering in my 1.5 years with the FFE. I would like a tighter turning radius, though. Some parking garages are tough to navigate without sharper turning.

One quick quibble with your original post: if you are comparing a 2012 Leaf, the cargo space size is the same as an FFE. You might find the layout of the Leaf's hatch better suited to your needs, but volume is 14.5 cubic feet for both, if I'm not mistaken. I personally find the larger footprint of the FFE more suited to my uses, namely backpacks and grocery bags, than the shallower but taller space of the original Leaf. I fit 4 paper sacks on each tier of the trunk, whereas they'd have to be sitting on top of each other in the Leaf. But to each their own!

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The trunk space on the LEAF is much bigger. I mean, I can fit a good size stroller in the back cargo area of the LEAF. The Focus won't come close to holding it.
But that's okay, because I usually take the LEAF on family trips. The Focus is my daily driver to work. Have already taken the Focus to two EV Advocate car shows, and it is one of the most desired cars out there to the casual bystander. Tons of compliments on it.

Got the car back with the new steering rack. Yes, it still has plenty of torque steer under heavy throttle, but it is fine during normal driving. The constant veering under light throttle is gone, and it is now fairly normal. I don't have a problem with the way it drives now.

I like the fancy design of the interior AND exterior. Installed the LED mirror/curb lights, and really like the improvement. The Sirius radio sounds better than the Nissan, and the system has pretty good upper end clarity. Not really strong bass though, and the rear door speaker panels rattle (is this a common problem?)

When I first got my LEAF, I wanted to see how far it would go on the range meter, before it died. The low battery warning usually comes on around 8 miles or so. The very Low battery warning comes on the range is down to 0 or close to it. Then you have about 4 more miles till turtle. Then about 1/4 of a mile till it dies.

Today I went to the charge station at the outlet stores with 0 range remaining. The chargers were out of order. I figured like the LEAF I would easily have another 4 miles or so. So I drove very economically across town at around 5mi/kWh efficiency. At around 2.5 miles I noticed the throttle was soft. At a little over 3 miies from the Mall, I get stuck at the intersection. No throttle whatsoever. Such fun pushing the car across the intersection! Luckily some people helped to push it to the charging station which was just about 1/8 mile away. At least now I know, 0 range is pretty serious in this car.

But it goes to 0, and then just "depleted battery" warning. Seems to give much less warning than the LEAF does. (the LEAF female voice talks to you and issues warnings during all these stages)
So the total kWh on the trip meter from the previous full charge read 20.1 kWh. Which is pretty much what I had before at a little past zero range. Does this mean there is about 20kWh usable battery capacity? How does this compare to others here?

As best I can determine the usable is something like 18.5, almost certainly less than 19. I suppose it's possible your brand-new car is better. That would be an important thing to learn if so.

In my case, the OBD scanner shows generally between 18.5 and 18.9 energy to empty right after a charge.

It's also true that the usable is based on a specific set of circumstances, particularly temperature and how hard you drive the car. So if you were at optimal battery temp and drove gently, I suppose you might see a higher reading. I really can't say for sure what's the explanation, but I'm interested to see your measurement.

The trunk adequacy is definitely going to be interpreted depending on what you try to put in it, but purely by volume they are equal. We don't favor strollers so that's not an issue for us. The FFE's trunk floor's larger area is a plus for my specific needs.

ELROY said:

But it goes to 0, and then just "depleted battery" warning. Seems to give much less warning than the LEAF does. (the LEAF female voice talks to you and issues warnings during all these stages)
So the total kWh on the trip meter from the previous full charge read 20.1 kWh. Which is pretty much what I had before at a little past zero range. Does this mean there is about 20kWh usable battery capacity? How does this compare to others here?

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To me, the warnings generated by FFE as I reach depleted battery are sufficiently alarming. At 10 miles left, the battery meter turns yellow, adds an exclamation mark, and is accompanied by a pop-up saying something like "battery almost depleted" that you have to acknowledge to see your left-hand display data again. At 0 miles, as you said, another pop-up says something like "battery depleted, stop now." Perhaps since FFE is my first EV, I took the message seriously, whereas your experience with Leaf led you to assume the warning wasn't as serious as it indeed is? Glad you didn't have to push far! As an aside, I'd like the option of turning these warnings off, since once you know how to interpret "0", you probably don't need reminders.

When my FFE was almost new, in warm Midwest weather ~80-90 deg F, I measured 19.8 kWh by trip meter from full charge to zero miles stop now warning. I didn't drive past that point until the car truly stopped, so I don't know if there as another 200Wh left but seems about the same as what you measured. Michael, correct me if I'm wrong but reading your reply and previous posts on the subject, I understand you haven't actually driven your FFE to empty and read the energy used by trip meter or OBD, have you? You said you are using your OBD's "energy to empty" reading after a full charge, right? Not sure how that number directly compares to the trip meter reading.

Honestly, I don't know how y'all do it, running down to 0. I couldn't force myself to do that unless trying to get away from fast zombies in the apocalypse! I have to have my car available to drive. It makes me a bit nervous just to be under 50% unless I know I'm going to be charging wherever I'm going, and even then I have to have many hours of charge time. I don't have an L2 at home yet, and no convenient one either, whether charge or free. That L1 I have puts the trick in trickle charge. Nervous may be overstating it a bit, but I'm constantly aware of my battery and basically planning out the next 2 days of driving. I know if I get home too late on day 1, or have driven a lot, I won't have a full charge in the morning, which puts a crimp in any driving on day 2. So, I like the idea of knowing just exactly how much usable battery I have, but in practice I can't afford to test it out to find out.

Abelgoddard said:

I don't have an L2 at home yet, and no convenient one either, whether charge or free.

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That is all the difference right there. When you get your L2 at home its like a whole new world opens up. You no longer have to be planning a few days out since you know you'll always have 100% charge in the morning regardless of what you have in the evening. You also can plan for short charges during the day (I've had days where I've driven it 120+ miles without ever getting it below about 30% charge, never using public charging and it still had 100% charge in the morning).