Pearl
Posts: 278
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2016 3:24 am
Location: Northeast Ohio

Re: charging rates

Thu Oct 26, 2017 5:47 am

The car, not the EVSE, determines the charge rate.
At 120V, the car will draw up to 12A or 1440W.
At 240V, the car will draw up to 27.5A or 6600W.

If the EVSE can only deliver 240V @16A (3840W), like yours, you will only charge at 3840W.
2013 Focus Electric
2013 C-Max Energi
2013 Escape

jmueller065
Posts: 2383
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:36 am
Location: Southeastern MI
Contact: Website

Re: charging rates

Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:12 am

Carbuff wrote:
Pearl wrote:The car, not the EVSE, determines the charge rate.
At 120V, the car will draw up to 12A or 1440W.
At 240V, the car will draw up to 27.5A or 6600W.

If the EVSE can only deliver 240V @16A (3840W), like yours, you will only charge at 3840W.
Ok, so the most it can draw at 120v is 12 amps? Even though the evse is rated at 16 amps for 120v the max for the car is 12? It will be no faster at 120v than the ford evse? Im doing most of my charging at work which only has 120v available. Ive been using the ford evse and it usually leaves me about 10 miles shy of full when I leave work. I thought that if I got the proper adapter to use the dual voltage evse at 120v that it might charge a little faster since its rated at 16 amps. Or I can just show up to work an hour earlier. LOL.
Its a little more nuanced than that: The EVSE tells the car how much the EVSE can provide then its up to the car to determine how much power it will consume.

In my experimentation with my current adjustable JuiceBox the FFE usually consumed as much current as the EVSE said it could provide. Thus if you got an EVSE rated for a little bit more than the Ford one (16A @ 120V instead of 12A @ 120V) the FFE should consume that extra power provided--granted my JuiceBox is a Level 2 @ 240V; the FFE may have a set power consumption when charging from 120V.
2018 Cajun Red Chevy Bolt
2016 Magnetic C-Max Energi (lease returned)
2014 Sunset Escape
2014 Thor Axis (V-10)
2013 Focus Electric (lease returned Jan 2016 for the C-Max above)
https://spareelectrons.wordpress.com/

spirilis
Posts: 154
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:53 am
Location: Maryland

Re: charging rates

Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:16 am

jmueller065 wrote:
Carbuff wrote:
Pearl wrote:The car, not the EVSE, determines the charge rate.
At 120V, the car will draw up to 12A or 1440W.
At 240V, the car will draw up to 27.5A or 6600W.

If the EVSE can only deliver 240V @16A (3840W), like yours, you will only charge at 3840W.
Ok, so the most it can draw at 120v is 12 amps? Even though the evse is rated at 16 amps for 120v the max for the car is 12? It will be no faster at 120v than the ford evse? Im doing most of my charging at work which only has 120v available. Ive been using the ford evse and it usually leaves me about 10 miles shy of full when I leave work. I thought that if I got the proper adapter to use the dual voltage evse at 120v that it might charge a little faster since its rated at 16 amps. Or I can just show up to work an hour earlier. LOL.
Its a little more nuanced than that: The EVSE tells the car how much the EVSE can provide then its up to the car to determine how much power it will consume.

In my experimentation with my current adjustable JuiceBox the FFE usually consumed as much current as the EVSE said it could provide. Thus if you got an EVSE rated for a little bit more than the Ford one (16A @ 120V instead of 12A @ 120V) the FFE should consume that extra power provided--granted my JuiceBox is a Level 2 @ 240V; the FFE may have a set power consumption when charging from 120V.
I did a short experiment where I made a 14-50 to 5-20 adapter that routed neutral to neutral (so the juicebox classic saw a true 120V) and had the current trimpot set to max (40A), but when I probed the hot line with an inductive ammeter I saw 12A. I have not analyzed the JuiceBox's own pilot signal to see if the JuiceBox overrides its current setting and tells the car only 12A is available at 120V though.
2017 Ford Focus Electric (Magnetic)
2017 Ford C-Max Energi SE (Kona Blue)

Pearl
Posts: 278
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2016 3:24 am
Location: Northeast Ohio

Re: charging rates

Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:57 am

I think a JuiceBox is an unique scenario, as most EVSEs are not adjustable.
2013 Focus Electric
2013 C-Max Energi
2013 Escape

triangles
Posts: 1056
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:40 am
Location: Toledo, Ohio

Re: charging rates

Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:43 pm

jmueller065 your juice box will work at 120V or 240V. The quick click of the relay when you power it up is the Juicebox going thru it's test to see if it's plugged into 120 or 240. It also maintains separate current limits for each voltage. I have mine set at 8A @120V for when I'm parked at the airport. and 32A@240V for when I'm at home (of course 6.6kW is only 27.5A). The FFE is idiot proofed on 120V. As mentioned earlier it will not draw more than 12A on 120V no matter what the EVSE tells it. While this is annoying it probably saves Ford from some idiot who would burn down their house and then blaming Ford for their own stupidity.

spirilis the juicebox indeed will tell the car it can pull whatever amps you set it at. I experimented with the JB and a 120V 30A circuit when I discovered much to my dismay the 12A 120V limitation. The FFE's 12A @ 120V limitation was probably wisely put there by fords legal team.
2014 Blue Candy FFE
http://www.fuelly.com/car/ford/focus/2014/triangles/303811 (since this forum doesn't allow BBcode in sigs)

spirilis
Posts: 154
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:53 am
Location: Maryland

Re: charging rates

Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:13 pm

triangles wrote:jmueller065 your juice box will work at 120V or 240V. The quick click of the relay when you power it up is the Juicebox going thru it's test to see if it's plugged into 120 or 240. It also maintains separate current limits for each voltage. I have mine set at 8A @120V for when I'm parked at the airport. and 32A@240V for when I'm at home (of course 6.6kW is only 27.5A). The FFE is idiot proofed on 120V. As mentioned earlier it will not draw more than 12A on 120V no matter what the EVSE tells it. While this is annoying it probably saves Ford from some idiot who would burn down their house and then blaming Ford for their own stupidity.

spirilis the juicebox indeed will tell the car it can pull whatever amps you set it at. I experimented with the JB and a 120V 30A circuit when I discovered much to my dismay the 12A 120V limitation. The FFE's 12A @ 120V limitation was probably wisely put there by fords legal team.
Aye good to know...

Gadget idea for me to dream up whenever I get cozy with AC electronics: General purpose AC-DC-AC inverter to turn any input voltage into 250VAC. Like active UPS's...

I do wonder how much such a beast could reasonably cost.
2017 Ford Focus Electric (Magnetic)
2017 Ford C-Max Energi SE (Kona Blue)

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