hybridbear
Posts: 1425
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:46 pm
Location: Minneapolis

Re: 70 mile round trip commute... On the edge?

Thu Sep 11, 2014 10:21 am

jenjc wrote:I would consider the Mercades if my pocket was deeper. They seem to be estimating close to a 100 mile range. The BMW range is similar to the FFE without the range extender. For me, part of the joy of an EV will be freedom from the burdens of a combustion engine. I wouldn't be interested in a range extender.

The FFE is right in my sweetspot partially because the price is right. Ford is offering some serious incentives which combined with the tax credits make it quite affordable. Plus, it's a very nice car.

Thanks for all your insight and suggestions. I'll pop back and let you know what we decide.

Range happy!
Perhaps you could get a dealer to let you borrow a FFE overnight to charge at home and then drive to work and back.
2013 Ford Focus Electric - Ice Storm - leased through 8/15/16
Replaced by a 2016 Tesla Model S 60D

michael
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Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:55 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: 70 mile round trip commute... On the edge?

Thu Sep 11, 2014 1:03 pm

As much as I would like to see another FFE on the road, my advice is to get a Volt. You will get the first 40 miles on electricity, and 35-40 mpg for the balance. And you will never have to worry about making it safely. Best estimates 11 kWh and less than a gallon per day.

If you can ever get charging at work, you can make the whole trip on electricity.

If you lived in California, I suggest a RAV4 EV...your commute would be easy.
2013 FFE Returned after 3 years with 52,000 miles and battery down to 15.2 kWh
2014 Volt returned with 43,000 miles
2014 Volt 26,000 miles
1967 Corvette 427
1962 Corvette 327
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chiapet6
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Re: 70 mile round trip commute... On the edge?

Thu Sep 11, 2014 3:50 pm

I live in Los Angeles and have a 60 mile round trip. Most of the commute is bumper to bumper (until I get the HOV lane stickers) on the way to work. Half bumper to bumper on the way home, until I get to a long strech where I am going about 70mph. I can charge at home at night, drive to work and back with usually around 30 miles left of charge.

michael
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Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: 70 mile round trip commute... On the edge?

Thu Sep 11, 2014 9:14 pm

It would be really good if one of our board members happened to live nearby and would take a test drive with you. You'd get a much better indication than anything we can estimate here. But if that doesn't happen, I'd look at it this way....

If you have 70 mile trip, plan for 75 so you have a little margin.

I estimate battery capacity at 18.5 kWh (although others may have slightly different estimates)

So to make it, you would need to maintain 18.5/75 = 246 Wh/mile. This is a reasonably achievable value, even at freeway speeds.

But what if you need to heat the car? In extreme cold, heater can consume 6 kW, but let's assume only 2 kW. Assume one hour commute, so you use 2 kWh in the heater, have 16.5 left for travel.

Then you need to maintain 16.5/75 = 220 wH/mile. This is getting pretty good, need to be careful to achieve this.

Plus what if you want to go for lunch? to the bank?.

If it's REALLY cold and you need to run the heater at 4 kW, you have only 14.5 kWh left, and you need to maintain 14.5/75 = 193 kWh/mile. That's not so easy....

It CAN be done, that's for sure, especially in mild weather. But you will need to be careful. If you have a backup car for bad weather, that would help a lot. If there is reasonable backup charging along the way, that would be a huge benefit.
2013 FFE Returned after 3 years with 52,000 miles and battery down to 15.2 kWh
2014 Volt returned with 43,000 miles
2014 Volt 26,000 miles
1967 Corvette 427
1962 Corvette 327
Awaiting a Bolt

hybridbear
Posts: 1425
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:46 pm
Location: Minneapolis

Re: 70 mile round trip commute... On the edge?

Fri Sep 12, 2014 4:26 am

michael wrote:It would be really good if one of our board members happened to live nearby and would take a test drive with you. You'd get a much better indication than anything we can estimate here. But if that doesn't happen, I'd look at it this way....
I believe Gigi is in East Cobb County. Perhaps he would be able to help.
2013 Ford Focus Electric - Ice Storm - leased through 8/15/16
Replaced by a 2016 Tesla Model S 60D

pjam3
Posts: 162
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:58 pm

Re: 70 mile round trip commute... On the edge?

Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:11 am

Do you ever have business lunches or after work dinners or errands to run? If you are barely making it home each night, you won't be able to do any of these things. Not that big of a deal if you never do these things anyway, but if you do, you would become "that guy who never drives or does anything extra" at work and at home. And that is never a good thing.

For me, I barely get 60 miles most of the time, so I try to keep my trips rather short. I have inclines and hills though and I can never use the Freeways. There is a grocery store about 1.5 miles away from me, if I use the freeway to get there and go about 65MPH, I'll wind up starting with 65 Miles of range, drive 3 miles round trip, and have about 40 Miles of range left. And that's with nothing else turned on. So I avoid the freeways at all times because of this.

If you have very few inclines, know you can make it the 70 miles and back, go for it. But you'll also have to remember you're going to be that guy who can never do anything else during and after lunch or simple errands because your car won't make it.

Richmond72
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Jan 26, 2014 1:52 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: 70 mile round trip commute... On the edge?

Fri Sep 12, 2014 2:07 pm

One more important thing I forgot with my earlier post... Make sure you can charge at home, only a complete fool or idiot would buy an electric car and rely on public charging.

EVA
Posts: 874
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 9:10 pm
Location: Chicago Area

Re: 70 mile round trip commute... On the edge?

Sat Sep 13, 2014 2:10 pm

Cold = 45 degrees. It seems like the range changes the most when the temp drops to 45. Above that, things are pretty good. Below that, the range drops.

ElSupreme's advice about surface streets is great. Until you start driving an electric car, you don't think about surface streets. In Atlanta, that might actually get you where you are going faster, given how unpredictable your highways are. I've found in the Chicago area, surface streets get me where I'm going in about the same amount of time, maybe 5 minutes longer. Not the half hour you might be thinking.

El - 2 miles left? Man you were just asking for it. I got nervous when I had 20 left.
2014 Platinum White FFE (Turning in mid Dec. 2016 25,000 miles)
2013 Ingot Silver FFE
2012 Titanium ICE Focus
2014 Tesla Model S 85

hybridbear
Posts: 1425
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:46 pm
Location: Minneapolis

Re: 70 mile round trip commute... On the edge?

Sun Sep 14, 2014 4:52 am

EVA wrote:Cold = 45 degrees. It seems like the range changes the most when the temp drops to 45. Above that, things are pretty good. Below that, the range drops.
Are you referring to the increased aerodynamic drag from cold air causing this? Or the fact that when the HVB temp drops it doesn't have as much energy available? I'm really curious to see how we fare for range etc in winter. Since we park in a heated, underground garage which is heated to 55 F the HVB should never get cold to have a lower ETE that way. Our tires also stay warmer which means they flex better. But none of that combats the increased aerodynamic drag from cold, dense air.
EVA wrote:ElSupreme's advice about surface streets is great. Until you start driving an electric car, you don't think about surface streets. In Atlanta, that might actually get you where you are going faster, given how unpredictable your highways are. I've found in the Chicago area, surface streets get me where I'm going in about the same amount of time, maybe 5 minutes longer. Not the half hour you might be thinking.
I started doing this when we first got our Fusion Hybrid in 2012. I found that in many cases I could drive less miles on surface streets rather than taking the freeway. Less miles means less energy needed to propel the vehicle and the less miles helps offset the time penalty.
2013 Ford Focus Electric - Ice Storm - leased through 8/15/16
Replaced by a 2016 Tesla Model S 60D

jmueller065
Posts: 2386
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:36 am
Location: Southeastern MI
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Re: 70 mile round trip commute... On the edge?

Sun Sep 14, 2014 6:02 am

hybridbear wrote:Are you referring to the increased aerodynamic drag from cold air causing this? Or the fact that when the HVB temp drops it doesn't have as much energy available? I'm really curious to see how we fare for range etc in winter. Since we park in a heated, underground garage which is heated to 55 F the HVB should never get cold to have a lower ETE that way. Our tires also stay warmer which means they flex better. But none of that combats the increased aerodynamic drag from cold, dense air.
(Answering for EVA): Below 45 degrees, heated garage or not, the battery doesn't perform as well as 70+, in addition the TMS runs to heat the battery also reducing range. For last winter my car was parked outside up until February. After late February it was kept in our garage (which, I guess you could say, is "heated"--its attached to our house and even when the temps were <<0F outside the garage never dipped below freezing). I really didn't notice a difference in performance between the two (using go times to heat the car to 85F outside vs the same in a garage). Once the car is outside things start to get cold fast.
2018 Cajun Red Chevy Bolt
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