Battery thermal management system

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pwebb

Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2013
Messages
12
Does anyone know if a 120 v charge via the provided cord provide enough power to activate the battery thermal management system or is the 240 v needed?
 
I think it does...but not 100% positive. In the summer when I was plugged in at work, there were 2 observations I made.
- On hot days when plugged into work outlet at 120v, it took longer to charge. Either the car was charging slower or it was using some power to cool the battery.
- Again, on hot days at work, when I unplugged before charging was complete, I'd get a message indicating that the battery was hot and needed to be plugged in.
 
davideos said:
I think it does...but not 100% positive. In the summer when I was plugged in at work, there were 2 observations I made.
- On hot days when plugged into work outlet at 120v, it took longer to charge. Either the car was charging slower or it was using some power to cool the battery.
- Again, on hot days at work, when I unplugged before charging was complete, I'd get a message indicating that the battery was hot and needed to be plugged in.
A few folks have observed the fans coming on when plugged in at 120v, so I think we can presume the battery cooling system does function even at Level 1. It would make sense that charging would take noticeably longer if cooling (or heating) were needed while charging at Level 1, since the overall incoming current is limited.
 
Mine does when it's hot. So far my garage hasn't dipped below 60 so the heating is still in question. Now as we know the heater requires way more power in the car it's quite possible they don't use the 120v for heating. I know it works for charging, when charging. The coolant pump does run sometimes without the fan (possibly passive cooling via just floating the water through the radiator).
 
I live in WI and the garage does drop into the low 20s at night. I do see that charging station cycling on and off threw the day, even though the battery is fully charged. This can only be the thermal management system warming the battery.
I'm using a level 2 charging.
 
In cold weather (35 deg and below) my (120V) charger draws a relatively constant 200-220 watts when the HV battery is fully charged. Once I see a couple of warmer days, I'll try to characterize this better. I'm a bit disappointed that Ford doesn't get any more specific than "cold" and "hot" for activation he TMS.
 
Thanks for all the replies. Here is my recent experience. The car was unplugged for about 3 hours inadverntly. It was fully charged prior to this. It was very cold with temps in the single digits. When I plugged in my level 2 after the typical click I heard "hissing" sound that I presume may be the TMS coming on. I decided to try to answer my own original question I posted. I then removed the level 2 and connected the Level 1 and waited.........no hissing sound just the click. My app stated it was 99% charged. By this experience it would seem that level 2 is needed to activate the TMS even when the battery is charged. I have a email out to Ford and will post their response. Any thoughts?
 
pwebb said:
By this experience it would seem that level 2 is needed to activate the TMS even when the battery is charged. I have a email out to Ford and will post their response. Any thoughts?
TMS is not active when the vehicle is turned off and and not plugged in.

TMS is active when the vehicle is plugged in (charging or not) or when the vehicle is powered on.

Certainly cooling seems to occur while plugged in at either Level 1 or Level 2 (others' anecdotes of fans running at Level 1 confirm this). From this, I would assume that heating would occur at both levels as well (though I don't recall any anecdotes regarding this).
 
My guess would be that just the same as go-times if it's plugged into level 1 and it needs to heat the battery it prolly pulls some from the battery as well as the level 1 until it gets heated up then would continue to charge battery until it's back to full.
 
I realize that the TMS is active only when plugged in or when the car is on, duh, that IS not the question. The question is does it require level 2 or is Level 1 sufficient? As for cooling I have had the car for only 3 weeks so no experiences for that.

I think ford could have had a indicator of some type to let the owner know that the TMS was active.
 
I know for certain that it runs when plugged into L2 as cooling fans under the hood are running. If cold, I do not know if it applies heat; however, I'd think that the act of charging the battery would generate heat.

I believe that with L1, some management occurs. When hot outside, I'm fairly certain that 120V charging takes much longer. Could be because it slows the rate of charge so as to not create additional heat or perhaps it is diverting some energy for cooling. My charging at work is 120V and I'm typically not around to hear if any cooling fans kick in or not, so I cannot say for certain.

Sorry for the non-answer.
 
Two more data points: At 0 deg F my 120V system continued to draw about 200w continuous (same as 35 deg). At 45 degrees it seemed to cycle between 2.4w (idle) and 200w for an average of about 50w. (I'm anxious to see what it does at 50 deg, but may have to wait awhile...). With a 240V system it might do something different but it doesn't look like it needs to (on the cold side).

I'm not convinced that TMS is totally shut down when the car is unplugged- my 12V battery never got drained until the overnight temperatures dropped below 40 degrees last Nov; then it happened multiple times until I decided that I needed to leave it plugged in on cold nights. (Might be part of TSB 13-9-19 that I haven't gotten around yet)
 
GladeStorm said:
I'm not convinced that TMS is totally shut down when the car is unplugged- my 12V battery never got drained until the overnight temperatures dropped below 40 degrees last Nov; then it happened multiple times until I decided that I needed to leave it plugged in on cold nights. (Might be part of TSB 13-9-19 that I haven't gotten around yet)
Its off: I cannot plug in at work and I see no battery degradation (either battery) when it sits at work for 8 hours. So far its been fine in temps as low as the 20s F. (I have yet to take it to work this year due to the REALLY cold weather--will most likely tomorrow and it will sit all day in 10s F temps not being plugged in and complaining about it!)
 
GladeStorm said:
my 12V battery never got drained until the overnight temperatures dropped below 40 degrees last Nov; then it happened multiple times until I decided that I needed to leave it plugged in on cold nights. (Might be part of TSB 13-9-19 that I haven't gotten around yet)
Btw, I mentioned TSB 13-9-19 when I took my 2013 in to get all the recalls applied. When returning my car, the service tech was kind enough to follow-up and explain that the TSB was superseded by the recalls. So, I'm not sure sure if that TSB even applies if you car is otherwise up-to-date.

Anybody else have similar experience?
 
EMAIL SENT TO FORD:
I recently purchased a 2013 Ford Focus ELectric. The car is great, but I have a question about the battery thermal mangement system. The owners Manuel offers few details. Will the 120 provided charging cord provide enough power to trigger the battery TMS while also charging? There is some debate on this on the FFE forum. My dealership could not answer this. I also have a Level 2 EVSE but I have read its better for the battery to charge with Level 1 vs Level when you have sufficient time.
FORD'S ANSWER:
Thank you for contacting Ford Motor Company’s Customer Relationship Center. This is Leah from the Electric Vehicle Division and I had the opportunity to review your email. I understand you’re inquiring about the Thermal Management System on your 2013 Ford Focus Electric.

Thermal management will occur automatically, as needed, while the vehicle is in operation. Pre-conditioning (available through MyFordMobile) will provide thermal management prior to vehicle operation. Pre-conditioning is most effective while the vehicle is on-the-plug. There is no benefit to using level 1 versus level 2 charging on the Focus Electric. Level 2 would be recommended.

VERY VAGUE, AND DOESN'T answer the question. looks like it was likely answered from a prepared answer book for customer service, BUT they did also leave a number to call, so will try this next. This really isn't a very hard question to answer. yes or no!
 
jmueller065 said:
Its off: I cannot plug in at work and I see no battery degradation (either battery) when it sits at work for 8 hours. So far its been fine in temps as low as the 20s F. (I have yet to take it to work this year due to the REALLY cold weather--will most likely tomorrow and it will sit all day in 10s F temps not being plugged in and complaining about it!)

Yeah, I left my car off plug for like 5 days last winter and 4 days this winter (temps around freezing both times). The high voltage battery percentage remained unchanged both times, and the 12v battery was good to go both times.

BTW, you may already know this, but you can disable the complaining about the cold, at least the text complaints. Use "notification settings" under "my account" on myfordmobile's website. Since I can't do anything about it at work, and it's usually obvious that the weather is particularly hot or cold, I don't see a reason for my car to bug me about this. Wish I could disable the instrument panel complaining too.
 
dmen said:
BTW, you may already know this, but you can disable the complaining about the cold, at least the text complaints. Use "notification settings" under "my account" on myfordmobile's website. Since I can't do anything about it at work, and it's usually obvious that the weather is particularly hot or cold, I don't see a reason for my car to bug me about this. Wish I could disable the instrument panel complaining too.
Yeah I was talking about the dash--I only have 1 MFM notification texting me (charge fault) and none of them e-mail me.
(I do, however, have all of the chargepoint notifications texting me--they seem to be much more reliable than the Ford ones.)
 
I know that the cabin heater has two 5 kilo watt heating elements. Since level 1 charging can't supply this level of power the difference has to come from the battery pack.
 
jeffand said:
I know that the cabin heater has two 5 kilo watt heating elements. Since level 1 charging can't supply this level of power the difference has to come from the battery pack.
I wonder why they use so much power?

I have a space heater (in my house) that plugs into 120V and surely doesn't draw more than 12 amps. That's only 1440 watts. If that thing was turned on full blast inside the confines of my FFE cabin, it would roasting in there within 10 minutes.

Any idea why the FFE needs two 5000 watt heating elements?
 
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