Texas FFE
Posts: 117
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2016 6:26 am

Increase the standard onboard charger to at least 15 kW

Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:21 am

The SAE J1772 AC Level 2 standard is rated for up to 80 amps, which at 240V AC produces 19.2 kW. The AC charger on board the Ford Focus Electric is only rated at 6.6 kW or about 27.5 amps at 240V. It appears that there is much room for improvement on the on board Ford Focus Electric AC charger.

I don't know of any public L2 charging stations that are rated for 80 amps or anywhere close to it but 80 amp L2 can be purchased, https://store.clippercreek.com/level2/l ... ng-station. An 80 L2 charger would cut the charging time down on the 33.5 kW Ford Focus Electric battery from more than 4 hours with a 6.6 kW charger to less than two hours with a 15+ kW charger. DCFC chargers are still going to be much faster but many locations will still need to depend on L2 charging and if Ford starts installing higher kW L2 on board chargers maybe many of the public chargers will get faster.
2017 Blue Candy FFE
2015 Teutonic Silver Fusion Energi Titanium w/Adaptive Cruise Control
2004 White GMC Envoy XL SLT 4WD

triangles
Posts: 1056
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:40 am
Location: Toledo, Ohio

Re: Increase the standard onboard charger to at least 15 kW

Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:24 am

Browse some of Sefs posts. He added a 2nd charger (that runs in parallel w/the existing 6.6kW charger) in the empty space under the hood and added a CHAdeMO plug. He also made his own "super charger" with a CHAdeMO plug by ganging up salvaged FFE 6.6kW chargers. Ford could design and implement a higher power onboard charger but that doesn't make financial sense considering the FFE is so low volume and will likely be discontinued after 2018. As you already noted I don't believe there are any public EVSEs that put out more than 30A and likely never will be since CSS is seen as the next step in charging over current 30A L2 EVSEs.
2014 Blue Candy FFE
http://www.fuelly.com/car/ford/focus/2014/triangles/303811 (since this forum doesn't allow BBcode in sigs)

Smoking_Rubber
Posts: 66
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:01 pm
Location: Pismo Beach, California
Contact: Website

Re: Increase the standard onboard charger to at least 15 kW

Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:55 am

It's techno posts like this that scare me. Makes me feel like I'm in over my head.

I'm planning to buy a 2018 FFE, but really I'm still working on getting approval from my wife. She's not happy about signing up for that much debt right after paying off my 2013 Toyota FJ Cruiser. I'm trying to explain that my new car payment will be less than what I'm currently paying for gas, because my work is installing (free to employees) L2 charging. Anyway... that's my battle. I'm ordering a 2018 FFE with or without her approval. Fingers-crossed that I live.

While in the process of researching electric vehicles, a friend of mine is also in the market for a commuter and he's kinda listening to my reasoning. He's got the green light from his old lady so we might go haggle on one that's about 140 miles from me, plus another 55 miles farther to him. Getting him home after purchasing this vehicle is the issue.

The plan is to sign up for ChargePoint. Maybe someone can help me plan this more efficiently?

The current plan:
1. Buy the 2017 FFE in Thousand Oaks CA (with a full charge) on Saturday. Depart the dealership by 1 or 2pm.
2. Drive 65 miles North to Goleta CA. Find a L2 charger (ChargePoint) and charge for 1 hr while we go get food in our drive down vehicle (CX-5). Hopefully 1 hr will top off the FFE.
3. Drive 86 miles North to Pismo Beach CA. Find a L2 charger and charge for 1 or 2 hours while we go to my house and hang. He can stay the night if this adventure is taking too long.
4. Drive the final 55 miles to his home in San Miguel CA.

This plan is highly dependent on how long it's going to take to charge in Goleta particularly. If we have to charge for 6 hours that's going to suck a$$. Any advise from experienced FFE owners? Not knowing how long it's going to take to charge is why I'm feeling like I'm in over my head. I don't know what to look for in a charger or a chargepoint charger. Can I charge him up at my house? How much will these charge ups cost? Feels like it might be better to have a local dealer trade for it, then pay and wait. Confused.
2017 Chevrolet Bolt Premium (My DD)
2013 Toyota FJ Cruiser (Weekend Beach Buggy)
2016 Mazda CX-5 (Wife's DD)

Pearl
Posts: 280
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2016 3:24 am
Location: Northeast Ohio

Re: Increase the standard onboard charger to at least 15 kW

Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:11 am

A level 2 charge station will charge the Focus at 6.6kW. You'll gain roughly 20-25 miles of range for every hour you are charging. If you have a 2017, you will be able to charge at level 3 DC fast chargers an potentiality full charge a depleted battery in an hour or so.
Look at ChargePoint and Plugshare and find CCS stations on your route.
2013 Focus Electric
2013 C-Max Energi
2013 Escape

spirilis
Posts: 154
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:53 am
Location: Maryland

Re: Increase the standard onboard charger to at least 15 kW

Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:51 am

Yeah one of the main advantages of the 2017+ is that CCS/SAE (Combo) DC fast charger. Look at http://plugshare.com/ for the "orange" stations.

First, in the upper right, hit More Options and change your filters so only EV Plugs and CCS DC fast charging stations show up.
Image

Then look for orange stations with CCS DCFC (if you changed the filter settings like up above, the only orange stations that pop up have CCS):
Image

Those should charge at anywhere from 25-50kW, usually 42kW is what I see at those Royal Farms gas stations over here in MD. 42kW is about 42 miles of range added every 15 minutes.

You usually pay more for the power at those DC fast charging stations, but it's usually worth it for your time (and if you don't need to rely on them often, not a big deal anyway).
2017 Ford Focus Electric (Magnetic)
2017 Ford C-Max Energi SE (Kona Blue)

Smoking_Rubber
Posts: 66
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:01 pm
Location: Pismo Beach, California
Contact: Website

Re: Increase the standard onboard charger to at least 15 kW

Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:58 am

I see a DC fast charger in Goleta so I'll definitely try to get it. If there are only Level 2 chargers available how long would it take to top off a 50% battery?
2017 Chevrolet Bolt Premium (My DD)
2013 Toyota FJ Cruiser (Weekend Beach Buggy)
2016 Mazda CX-5 (Wife's DD)

spirilis
Posts: 154
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:53 am
Location: Maryland

Re: Increase the standard onboard charger to at least 15 kW

Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:00 am

Smoking_Rubber wrote:I see a DC fast charger in Goleta so I'll definitely try to get it. If there are only Level 2 chargers available how long would it take to top off a 50% battery?
At 6kW, about 2.5 hours (judging how my current FFE seems to gauge its percentages around an effective 30kWh usable, I'm assuming you'd need to charge 15kWh).
2017 Ford Focus Electric (Magnetic)
2017 Ford C-Max Energi SE (Kona Blue)

triangles
Posts: 1056
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:40 am
Location: Toledo, Ohio

Re: Increase the standard onboard charger to at least 15 kW

Fri Sep 01, 2017 7:43 am

Smoking rubber, Everything I've seen about the DC fast chargers is that they charge many times the equivalent amount of gasoline so be prepared for sticker shock. I never used one myself as my car is not capable. I also have never used a pay L2 station Most here in Ohio are free. Due to Ohio's laws they can't charge per kWh since they aren't a utility so they charge per minute which can greatly distort the cost depending on the charging rate of the EVSE. If you can plan your route to keep speeds low (50mph or less) you will get significantly farther. Think how much better fuel economy your ICE has on the freeway compared to city driving. EV's are the complete opposite. If you've got a hitch on your FJ you might consider renting a trailer if the adventure of multiple charge traveling isn't appealing. Also even though ford expressly says you're not supposed to use a dolly with the FFE, it has been done over distances of hundreds of miles with no adverse affects. I believe Ford says no to this because of all the weight shifting to the back wheels but as long as you aren't off-roading it shouldn't be a problem.
2014 Blue Candy FFE
http://www.fuelly.com/car/ford/focus/2014/triangles/303811 (since this forum doesn't allow BBcode in sigs)

ghiebert
Posts: 45
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:06 pm
Location: Vancouver BC

Re: Increase the standard onboard charger to at least 15 kW

Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:19 am

triangles wrote:Smoking rubber, Everything I've seen about the DC fast chargers is that they charge many times the equivalent amount of gasoline
I guess it varies. The ones around here that are not free are usually $0.35/kWh, with a $2 minimum. The city will be converting one free one to $16/hr. (L2 here are almost all free at the moment.)

But at $0.15/minute—the price charged at a couple of stations in Goleta—that would be $4.50 to bring an empty tank to 80%, or about 92 miles. A 35 mpg car would require 2.63 gallons of fuel to go that far, which would be $8.04 at California's current average of $3.059/gal.
2017 FFE Magnetic

spirilis
Posts: 154
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:53 am
Location: Maryland

Re: Increase the standard onboard charger to at least 15 kW

Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:29 am

ghiebert wrote:
triangles wrote:Smoking rubber, Everything I've seen about the DC fast chargers is that they charge many times the equivalent amount of gasoline
I guess it varies. The ones around here that are not free are usually $0.35/kWh, with a $2 minimum. The city will be converting one free one to $16/hr. (L2 here are almost all free at the moment.)

But at $0.15/minute—the price charged at a couple of stations in Goleta—that would be $4.50 to bring an empty tank to 80%, or about 92 miles. A 35 mpg car would require 2.63 gallons of fuel to go that far, which would be $8.04 at California's current average of $3.059/gal.
Yeah the DC fast chargers are a gamble. Royal Farms at $0.29/kwh, minimum charge $3.50 (12kwh) is close, at (assuming 4 mi/kwh) $0.0725/mile ... at $2.30/gal regular gas (MD) that would be the cost/mile for a 31mpg car. As gas prices rise, the economics get a little better.

EVgo around here with a basic account does $5.95 connection charge plus $0.20/minute I think. So for 20 minutes I could expect to charge around 14kwh or so, that'd be a cost-per-mile of $0.177 or (at gas prices 2.30) equivalent of a car making 13mpg.

Economics get a tad better if you let an EVgo station run for 30 minutes, but probably not much better since the charge rate tapers off.

Then there's the DC fast charger I had the treat to use this morning - Baltimore's Enoch Pratt Free Library level 3 charger by Roland Ave, installed by the "EV Institute" (who is putting L2 and some L3's in all the EPFL libraries), doing 330V/100A (33kW) Level 3 charging for *free*!
2017 Ford Focus Electric (Magnetic)
2017 Ford C-Max Energi SE (Kona Blue)

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