TexaCali
Posts: 113
Joined: Mon May 12, 2014 5:06 pm
Location: San Jose, CA

upgrade from 2014 to 2018 FFE?

Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:01 am

My 2014 FFE has been great, only about 35k miles on it. But I'm looking at the financing and incentives on the 2018 models and wondering how much better the 2018 is than the 2014. From what I know.....

-bigger battery (76 miles EPA range vs 115 miles)
-fast DC port (that I'd probably never use, but who knows)
-Sync 3 (is it really better? do I care?)

Is there anything else? From what I can tell, the slightly improved range (and a newer car) is really all I'd care about. If it was a 150+ mile range then I'd be really excited about it. As it is I can live with the current range but the added bump would be nice.

Now to the numbers. KBB claims trade in on my car is $12.5k, and private party might be slightly over $14k, but lets use the $12.5k trade in. After incentives and trade in, the Ford site claims the amount to finance would be $15k (plus about $3k in taxes which they don't mention, so really $18k), which Ford will finance at 0% for 72 months. Factor in $7,500 federal tax credit and $2,500 rebate from the state (plus new carpool stickers!), and the real cost of the upgrade is about $8k. There is also the lease option, but since the site doesn't tell you the end of lease residual I can't really determine if the lease is a better deal.

So assuming these numbers hold.....is it worth $8k to replace a 2014 FFE with a 2018 FFE? Or should I just wait a bit more and get a 200+ mile car in a few years?

jmueller065
Posts: 2387
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:36 am
Location: Southeastern MI
Contact: Website

Re: upgrade from 2014 to 2018 FFE?

Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:49 am

At the moment 200+ mile cars cost quite a bit more than an FFE (although in California you can get a much better deal than I got on the Bolt).

Not sure Sync 3 is worth $8k either LOL (I have Sync 3 in our C-Max it is a lot nicer than MFT in just about every way but I wouldn't use it as the only criteria for upgrading).

In addition: its still an FFE with all the possible heartaches that come along with that (as you know LOL). Granted a different car may come with its own set of, er, "features" lol.
2018 Cajun Red Chevy Bolt
2016 Magnetic C-Max Energi (lease returned)
2014 Sunset Escape
2014 Thor Axis (V-10)
2013 Focus Electric (lease returned Jan 2016 for the C-Max above)
https://spareelectrons.wordpress.com/

scottt
Site Moderator
Posts: 317
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:00 am

Re: upgrade from 2014 to 2018 FFE?

Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:17 am

As someone who made a similar transition (2015 to 2017), my $0.02

First, you'll be VERY lucky to get $12.5 for your car. I'd take it to a Carmax, and just see what you get. I think you'll be shocked.

Second, I was very surprised at how much of a difference the 76 vs 115 mileage range makes. There are a lot more places I can go, and being able to do a longer roundtrip has come in handy.

DC fast charging......never used it, couldn't even tell you where the nearest DC fast charger is. I've never seen one.

Sync 3. Ok, I think I'm in the minority here. I liked My Ford Touch. It worked. The voice recognition worked well for me, and I liked all the features. Granted having access to Apple CarPlay is a nice thing to have.

And I think your ending numbers are a bit high. Ending price for the car should be approx $23-24k (there is a $4000 incentive from Ford at the moment). Figure $8k-ish for your trade (maybe), and then $10k for your federal and state incentives, final cost should be closer to $5k-ish, not $8k
2015 Magnetic FFE (aka Magneto) - Retired
2017 Kona Blue FFE (aka King Kona) - Current

campfamily
Posts: 439
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:07 am
Location: Southern California

Re: upgrade from 2014 to 2018 FFE?

Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:02 am

I have been running the exact same trade, except my current driver is a 2015 FFE. My main motivation is to get the updated carpool lane sticker, since that saves me a considerable amount of time on my commute. Here is what I discovered:

1) The lease offer on the Ford website ($149/mo) is misleading. What they don't tell you is that you have to pay sales tax on the $11,000 rebate, which is over $1,000 where I live. The best lease payment my local dealer was able to come up with was almost $300/mo with nothing down, including sales taxes and fees.
2) Availability of the FFE in Southern California is pretty slim, and getting slimmer (in fact, by now, they may all be gone).
3) Residual value, 36 mo / 10K miles, was 32%, or around $9500.
4) The best purchase price I could negotiate was about $3500 off MSRP, before rebates. I'm guessing the discounts may be getting slimmer now that availability is less, but I could be wrong.
5) Since you live in California, remember you will be paying sales tax on the $4000 Ford rebate.
6) Trade-in on my 2015 was about $8000. This was in spite of KBB saying my car had a trade-in value of $12,500.

I also looked at the Bolt. Here in SoCal, the Chevy dealers aren't dealing much on those, at least they weren't about 6 weeks ago. The best lease deal I could get was still in the low $400's per month, and the best purchase price was about $3500 off MSRP, after rebates. The cars you see in the paper with bigger discounts or lower lease payments didn't have the DC charging capability, which I would use if I had it. Chevy isn't offering much in the way of lease rebates (they are keeping the federal tax credit), but they do have a much better residual value (57%). And, personally, I don't really care for the way the Bolt looks, or the interior (not nearly as nice as the FFE).

I decided to continue driving my 2015 FFE. There are going to be a bunch of new EVs hitting the market around the end of the year. I'm particularly interested in the Hyundai Kona / Kia Niro twins. GM is supposed to be launching a couple of new Bolt-based EVs. Figure in about a year I can get some good deals on one of those, assuming I like them.

Keith
GONE - 2015 FFE, Magnetic with leather interior, debadged & tinted
38,500 miles (since May 2015), average 246 Wh/mile

REPLACED WITH - 2018 Tesla Model3, LR RWD, Obsidian Black
11,000 miles (since Nov 2018), average 235 Wh/mile

TexaCali
Posts: 113
Joined: Mon May 12, 2014 5:06 pm
Location: San Jose, CA

Re: upgrade from 2014 to 2018 FFE?

Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:50 am

scottt wrote:...First, you'll be VERY lucky to get $12.5 for your car. I'd take it to a Carmax, and just see what you get. I think you'll be shocked....
Actually I was shocked at the KBB $12.5k number. I was expecting something in the $5-8k range, which from what your saying sounds like it might be closer to reality.

TexaCali
Posts: 113
Joined: Mon May 12, 2014 5:06 pm
Location: San Jose, CA

Re: upgrade from 2014 to 2018 FFE?

Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:01 am

campfamily wrote:I have been running the exact same trade, except my current driver is a 2015 FFE. My main motivation is to get the updated carpool lane sticker, since that saves me a considerable amount of time on my commute......<snip>......I decided to continue driving my 2015 FFE. There are going to be a bunch of new EVs hitting the market around the end of the year. I'm particularly interested in the Hyundai Kona / Kia Niro twins. GM is supposed to be launching a couple of new Bolt-based EVs. Figure in about a year I can get some good deals on one of those, assuming I like them.

Keith
Yep, that's about where I'm at. The 115 mile range would make a lot of trips possible as scottt pointed out, but other than that it is the red sticker that really has the most value. Is that worth the extra cost, not sure. But like you, the Hyundai offerings seem enticing to me and more options are arriving every day.

At 100+ miles a BEV is still an around town car (which fits the bill most of the time), but at ~250 miles a BEV suddenly becomes a local road trip car (San Jose to Sacramento in my case). Though in another few years my 76 mile FFE will be almost worthless on the used market, which probably means I just keep it until it dies.

Maybe I can find a dealer who is just desperate to get rid of one and then the numbers would make sense.

triangles
Posts: 1062
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:40 am
Location: Toledo, Ohio

Re: upgrade from 2014 to 2018 FFE?

Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:32 am

I'm holding out that in another 3-5 years I'll be able to build my own battery pack to give my FFE a 150-200mi range.
2014 Blue Candy FFE
http://www.fuelly.com/car/ford/focus/2014/triangles/303811 (since this forum doesn't allow BBcode in sigs)

TexaCali
Posts: 113
Joined: Mon May 12, 2014 5:06 pm
Location: San Jose, CA

Re: upgrade from 2014 to 2018 FFE?

Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:23 pm

triangles wrote:I'm holding out that in another 3-5 years I'll be able to build my own battery pack to give my FFE a 150-200mi range.
When I bought mine I figured at some point there would eventually be a robust aftermarket for larger capacity batteries, charge controllers, maybe even motor upgrades, etc. But given the dismal sales figures for the FFE, I seriously doubt there will be any after market suppliers. Maybe for the Leaf.....

carbuff
Posts: 55
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:59 am

Re: upgrade from 2014 to 2018 FFE?

Fri Aug 24, 2018 5:43 am

TexaCali wrote:
triangles wrote:I'm holding out that in another 3-5 years I'll be able to build my own battery pack to give my FFE a 150-200mi range.
When I bought mine I figured at some point there would eventually be a robust aftermarket for larger capacity batteries, charge controllers, maybe even motor upgrades, etc. But given the dismal sales figures for the FFE, I seriously doubt there will be any after market suppliers. Maybe for the Leaf.....
I think the only current EV that will have any aftermarket stuff available, ever, will be the tesla.

TexaCali
Posts: 113
Joined: Mon May 12, 2014 5:06 pm
Location: San Jose, CA

Re: upgrade from 2014 to 2018 FFE?

Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:06 am

Yep.....you are probably right. Tesla is the most likely to see an aftermarket.

Since rebates and carpool stickers are a factor for many in considering an upgrade, looks like the rules have changed in CA. According to the state web site:

"For a vehicle purchased on or after January 1, 2018, the Department of Motor Vehicles cannot issue a clean air decal to an applicant who has received a consumer rebate,.."

See https://cleanvehiclerebate.org/eng/income-eligibility

And there are income caps for the rebate. If I'm reading it correctly, you have a choice between a rebate ($2500 for a BEV) or a carpool sticker. And if your household income is over $300k then you can't receive a rebate (sadly not a problem for me). Interestingly fuel cell cars get bigger rebates and don't have an income restriction.

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