Tony's tips for new buyers of FFE

I love this car despite some problems I had and I would really encourage people to buy it, frankly speaking its an unbelievable quality product (that's an understatement) and I've been buying Fords for 3 decades. But bearing that in mind I think people should be aware that its one of those counter-intuitive situations in which a amazing product is economically very difficult to sell for the Ford due to certain market reasons. For that I'm listing some tips for people who want to new buy the car.

Tip #1: You are at an unusually strong advantage going into the new FFE deal. Ford have no desire to make or sell these cars ... its a compliance thing. Read up on what this means and be prepared to use this your advantage. Think statistically, i.e. the dealer has 20 people that come in his showroom each day to see the Focus SEL but not even 1 asking about the FFE. When you walk in the door you are his lucky ticket. He has been forced into taking the vehicle by Ford because they got to sell ballpark 1K a year due to the Government and he wants it OFF his lot. Forget about the sticker and be prepared to get dirty.

I agree with Tony on this. We got our FFE when returning our previous ICE Focus to the dealer. I had discussed the FFE with them some months earlier, and they remembered us. The salesman put us right together with the sales manager to make a deal. They didn't want us to walk out without a car.

BTW, best thing a car salesman ever did for (to) me!

I would really, really love to get another EV this weekend, but try as I might, I can't justify it until the lease on my wife's ICE runs out in another year. Grrrrrrrrrr.....

Tip #2: Expedite the negotiation process by calling up a couple of dealers and tell them that you're about to sign a contract for new lease or purchase at an out-of-state dealership but you wanted to just check if the local dealer had something in stock because he's closer to you etc. At this point you should have done all your research, do not ask questions about the vehicle, you know theres really only two options and colors to chose from. You want straight-talk, not sales talk.

This puts the dealer on notice that he's got a red hot lead who has already negotiated the basics. Probably dealers experiences 1 or 2 events like this a month if he's lucky.

Dealers will ask you for the price you're about to sign at, but don't tell him ...ask the dealer to come back to you with his best and final offer price.

In this scenario many salesmen, especially newer ones will instantly go for the last ditch strategy and low-ball you a price because they think you're going to walk anyway if they try to start you at the normal negotiation point from which they work downwards.

If dealer returns to you with a price, now you are in-control ... he's put you in the driver seat.

Great tips. It’s getting easier to get a car loan, which is good news all around. Easier car loans benefit subprime borrowers at a time when more Americans than ever have low credit scores. A looser car credit market helps the the auto industry sell more cars. Selling more cars to people with low credit scores is good for subprime auto lenders. And selling more cars is good for a U.S. economic recovery that is trying to gain momentum.

TonySpice said:

I love this car despite some problems I had and I would really encourage people to buy it, frankly speaking its an unbelievable quality product (that's an understatement) and I've been buying Fords for 3 decades. But bearing that in mind I think people should be aware that its one of those counter-intuitive situations in which a amazing product is economically very difficult to sell for the Ford due to certain market reasons. For that I'm listing some tips for people who want to new buy the car.

Tip #1: You are at an unusually strong advantage going into the new FFE deal. Ford have no desire to make or sell these cars ... its a compliance thing. Read up on what this means and be prepared to use this your advantage. Think statistically, i.e. the dealer has 20 people that come in his showroom each day to see the Focus SEL but not even 1 asking about the FFE. When you walk in the door you are his lucky ticket. He has been forced into taking the vehicle by Ford because they got to sell ballpark 1K a year due to the Government and he wants it OFF his lot. Forget about the sticker and be prepared to get dirty.

Click to expand...

Sadly this isn't the case in MN. Ford allocates very few Energis & Focus Electrics here which generally means that the dealers can't keep them in stock. They sell out very quickly. This means that dealerships can demand sticker price or higher for the cars.

There are hundreds and hundreds in California. It might be worthwhile to find out the shipping cost, maybe still save some $$$$ ??

Tip #3

Once you've found a car start discussion on the deal in the middle of the month, but plan to close on the absolute last working day of the month (dont let the dealer know).

Some people will tell you this is a myth - these people are either dealers or clueless.

For informational purposes listen to "129 Cars" from This American Life.

TonySpice said:

Tip #3

Once you've found a car start discussion on the deal in the middle of the month, but plan to close on the absolute last working day of the month (dont let the dealer know).

Some people will tell you this is a myth - these people are either dealers or clueless.

For informational purposes listen to "129 Cars" from This American Life.

Click to expand...

+1 to 129 cars. Great ep. But I'm in the same boat as hybridbear in MN. The fact that there are NO cars available for hundreds maybe thousands of miles around means I don't expect any real negotiating when I go in.

On the other hand, this dealer hasn't ever seen one much less sold one, so he may not want to let me walk away so that he won't be stuck with a car that might not sell otherwise. We'll see on Fri or Sat, whenever the car gets in.

I waited months after ordering my FFE and after hearing it would be another month (end of July), I finally got one our of CA. If you want one of these cars, get one from a dealer that has them. My local Ford dealer called the CA dealer, Overnighted a check, and my car was here the second day. Much smarter than the frustration for something that may never come to fruition. The car from CA definitely cost me $600 more for shipping but a small price to pay for 3 years of Electric driving.

Entourage said:

Much smarter than the frustration for something that may never come to fruition.

Click to expand...

Implying that if you order one there is the possibility that it may never show up? This is odd since you do sign a contract when you place an order (perhaps that was your mistake? When I ordered mine I signed an order form).

If you do place an order it does pay to be patient, though. I ordered mine in Feb last year and didn't get a build date until mid-April (yes from Feb to April I did the weekly call to the dealer and/or tweet to @FordService on twitter to get an update which can get frustrating). Delivery was late May.

My frustration wasn't nearly as much as my coworker's who's build date came and went, then the delivery came and went with no car...! (The sordid details of his FFE woes are spelled out in my blog: here, and here).

TonySpice said:

Tip #3

Once you've found a car start discussion on the deal in the middle of the month, but plan to close on the absolute last working day of the month (dont let the dealer know).

Some people will tell you this is a myth - these people are either dealers or clueless.

For informational purposes listen to "129 Cars" from This American Life.

Click to expand...

does this go for leasing as well :mrgreen:

TonySpice said:

Tip #2: Expedite the negotiation process by calling up a couple of dealers and tell them that you're about to sign a contract for new lease or purchase at an out-of-state dealership but you wanted to just check if the local dealer had something in stock because he's closer to you etc. At this point you should have done all your research, do not ask questions about the vehicle, you know theres really only two options and colors to chose from. You want straight-talk, not sales talk.

This puts the dealer on notice that he's got a red hot lead who has already negotiated the basics. Probably dealers experiences 1 or 2 events like this a month if he's lucky.

Dealers will ask you for the price you're about to sign at, but don't tell him ...ask the dealer to come back to you with his best and final offer price.

In this scenario many salesmen, especially newer ones will instantly go for the last ditch strategy and low-ball you a price because they think you're going to walk anyway if they try to start you at the normal negotiation point from which they work downwards.

If dealer returns to you with a price, now you are in-control ... he's put you in the driver seat.

Click to expand...

Lying is never a good policy.

If you've done your research, you should know what you want to pay for the vehicle. What you are calling and shopping for is a sales person that will remember you when you come in for service, who will grab you a loaner vehicle without a thought, who will order any parts or accessories for you while you sit in the living room, and all after having the right vehicle prepped and ready to go for your short visit to take delivery. With your strategy you are bound to end up buying a vehicle from a sales person that will forget about you the moment you roll down the street. Sales people don't like to waste time, if someone tells me I have a deal "today" and at there number I will do my darndest to get there. When someone says "give me your best price" and gives me no idea what they consider fair, I'm not gonna be giving up all my commission on the first go.

My advice is know what you think is a fair deal, and get that deal from a sales person you like. I always tell my customers, we are giving you the car for free your just paying for the excellent service!

Just my two cents...but I'm a salesmen and I don't think you trust me as far as you can throw me haha!

TonySpice said:

Tip #3

Once you've found a car start discussion on the deal in the middle of the month, but plan to close on the absolute last working day of the month (dont let the dealer know).

Some people will tell you this is a myth - these people are either dealers or clueless.

For informational purposes listen to "129 Cars" from This American Life.

Click to expand...

This tip, I half agree with. If I want to close another deal at the end of the month, depending on the negotiations up to that point, I may call with a last ditch offer by the last week. The downside to that is I am not the only sales person in the showroom, and I've had plenty of customers come in at the end of the month only to find out that someone else bought the car of there dreams.

Zjlange12 said:

TonySpice said:

Tip #3

Once you've found a car start discussion on the deal in the middle of the month, but plan to close on the absolute last working day of the month (dont let the dealer know).

Some people will tell you this is a myth - these people are either dealers or clueless.

For informational purposes listen to "129 Cars" from This American Life.

Click to expand...

This tip, I half agree with. If I want to close another deal at the end of the month, depending on the negotiations up to that point, I may call with a last ditch offer by the last week. The downside to that is I am not the only sales person in the showroom, and I've had plenty of customers come in at the end of the month only to find out that someone else bought the car of there dreams.

Click to expand...

I know this: the car I had brought down from OKC was sitting at a dealership that was quoting me MSRP and not budging. This was the only car for hundreds of miles. Another dealership was offering to order one for me, with a savings of about $2800. But ordering would make me wait 3-4, maybe even 5 months. I went into dealer A on 6-24. Told him I could not pay his price, he had to come down - a lot. He didn't budge a dollar. I walked. I got home, 10 minutes away, and before I could finish taking a piss he called me back and caved HUGE. I brought him down $2400 inside of 2 minutes on the phone. Picked it up the next day at lunch.

Granted, there was a week left in the month, but I think it was a combination of that plus not wanting to be stuck with an FFE that there's such low demand for. Knowing my price and being able to walk out of the dealer was the biggest advantage I had.

No offense, Zjlange, but I really don't care about the salesman. I don't need a relationship with him. My next car is at least 3 years away, and there's almost no chance he'll be there then, if I even go back to that dealer. I have no need in between for him at all.

Excellent execution of a buying strategy Abelgoddard ... the new car deal negotiation process is a modern day battle of wits between two opponents, similar to ancient Gladiatorial fights. And in that battle you totally crushed your foe. The way you walked out of the dealership despite having come so close was awesome and is the essence of strength in bargaining as all negotiation trainers will tell you ... the willingness to walk away from a deal is the single biggest determinant of who will win.

And great points on Zjlange's soft sales patter. I'd take this even further and while I don't want to seem rude, frankly I don't give a damn about the salesman. I've brought numerous cars and seen good salesmen and bad salesmen - at the end of the day I'm relying on the manufacturers reputation not some fly-by-night guy, so simply put ... $$$ is the bottom line! The numbers talk, the rest walks.

But we shouldn't complain, its the rubes that fall for the slick sales talk that are subsidizing our rock bottom prices after all!

Abelgoddard said:

Zjlange12 said:

TonySpice said:

Tip #3

Once you've found a car start discussion on the deal in the middle of the month, but plan to close on the absolute last working day of the month (dont let the dealer know).

Some people will tell you this is a myth - these people are either dealers or clueless.

For informational purposes listen to "129 Cars" from This American Life.

Click to expand...

This tip, I half agree with. If I want to close another deal at the end of the month, depending on the negotiations up to that point, I may call with a last ditch offer by the last week. The downside to that is I am not the only sales person in the showroom, and I've had plenty of customers come in at the end of the month only to find out that someone else bought the car of there dreams.

Click to expand...

I know this: the car I had brought down from OKC was sitting at a dealership that was quoting me MSRP and not budging. This was the only car for hundreds of miles. Another dealership was offering to order one for me, with a savings of about $2800. But ordering would make me wait 3-4, maybe even 5 months. I went into dealer A on 6-24. Told him I could not pay his price, he had to come down - a lot. He didn't budge a dollar. I walked. I got home, 10 minutes away, and before I could finish taking a piss he called me back and caved HUGE. I brought him down $2400 inside of 2 minutes on the phone. Picked it up the next day at lunch.

Granted, there was a week left in the month, but I think it was a combination of that plus not wanting to be stuck with an FFE that there's such low demand for. Knowing my price and being able to walk out of the dealer was the biggest advantage I had.

No offense, Zjlange, but I really don't care about the salesman. I don't need a relationship with him. My next car is at least 3 years away, and there's almost no chance he'll be there then, if I even go back to that dealer. I have no need in between for him at all.

Click to expand...

I had similar circumstances to Abelgoddard but the opposite outcome.

It was 7 PM on the 30th of July and I made an offer that was $1500 under sticker on a FFE in stock at the dealer. I filled out a lease application and the salesman said "I'll take it to my manager and let you know if he approves the deal."

The next day (last day of the month)... nothing. I finally called at the end of the day and asked why he hadn't called me back.

"Oh, you wanted me to call you ? I don't understand. What did you want to know ?" :?

They sold that FFE to a different customer the next day, so it's entirely possible that somebody came in that morning and offered the sticker price.

It's a shame because this dealership is just two miles from my office, and I need to buy yet another vehicle this month (a Transit Connect). If they hadn't tried so many dishonest tricks during the sales process, we might have been able to do business.