jlsoaz
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 3:15 pm

Anyone with insight on when available in Arizona?

Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:13 pm

I spoke to a Tucson dealer the other day that is slated to receive the vehicle, but wasn't able to get any sort of details.

jlsoaz
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 3:15 pm

Re: Anyone with insight on when available in Arizona?

Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:59 pm

jlsoaz wrote:I spoke to a Tucson dealer the other day that is slated to receive the vehicle, but wasn't able to get any sort of details.
Side note:

I am really frustrated and angry with Ford. The FFE looks good, but the Volt and Leaf have been out for nearly two years now, and have worked the kinks out and Ford, with their dithering, is not even available in my state yet. I guess they are not as committed as Chevy to offering me a way to stop using oil and a way for me to leverage the solar panels I have set on in my yard.

redEV
Posts: 61
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:53 am
Location: Chicago

Re: Anyone with insight on when available in Arizona?

Sat Aug 25, 2012 7:23 am

jlsoaz wrote:
jlsoaz wrote:I spoke to a Tucson dealer the other day that is slated to receive the vehicle, but wasn't able to get any sort of details.
Side note:

I am really frustrated and angry with Ford. The FFE looks good, but the Volt and Leaf have been out for nearly two years now, and have worked the kinks out and Ford, with their dithering, is not even available in my state yet. I guess they are not as committed as Chevy to offering me a way to stop using oil and a way for me to leverage the solar panels I have set on in my yard.
Agree, but as I waited 18 months !!! from time of placing a 'deposit' until it was delivered for our '12 LEAF it's the same all over -- Chicago wasn't a launch area for the LEAF but it was for the FFE and they still aren't here so perhaps Ford is even further behind, a few FFE owners are also experiencing a few issues so even after waiting this long hopefully the Ford planners fully vetted the car. We're really interested in the C-Max (either just the hybrid or plug-in), the good news is that local dealers have placed orders for the hybrid which should arrive any day now; the trend for higher sales seems to be the plug-in hybrids; either like the Volt or plug-in Prius, etc. for the extended range and not unfortunately the 'pure' BEV's like the LEAF, Mitsu 'i' and this FFE so we'll see how fast sales and availability ramp up for it.

jlsoaz
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 3:15 pm

Re: Anyone with insight on when available in Arizona?

Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:28 am

redEV wrote: Agree, but as I waited 18 months !!! from time of placing a 'deposit' until it was delivered for our '12 LEAF it's the same all over -- Chicago wasn't a launch area for the LEAF but it was for the FFE and they still aren't here so perhaps Ford is even further behind, a few FFE owners are also experiencing a few issues so even after waiting this long hopefully the Ford planners fully vetted the car. We're really interested in the C-Max (either just the hybrid or plug-in), the good news is that local dealers have placed orders for the hybrid which should arrive any day now; the trend for higher sales seems to be the plug-in hybrids; either like the Volt or plug-in Prius, etc. for the extended range and not unfortunately the 'pure' BEV's like the LEAF, Mitsu 'i' and this FFE so we'll see how fast sales and availability ramp up for it.
Thanks Red, this is good to know. I'd like to consider the C-MAX Energi PHEV or the Fusion Energi PHEV, but they don't appear to have liquid cooling and would involve me waiting through many more months of Ford taking its time. I'm in Arizona so I'm trying to favor liquid cooling, though I am not ruling out leasing one of the non-liquid-cooled vehicles such as the Leaf or iMiEV.

I've been driving Fords for about 12 years and the gasoline burners I've been driving have been reliable, but their move to plug-ins has been excrutiatingly slow. Sadly, it may mean that I will have to commit to a 2-year Volt Lease, since Ford just couldn't get off its behind in time.

It is not just the engineering and shake-out period in which GM and Nissan and Mitsubishi are ahead. It is also in financing. Those three seem to have realized that with the 7500 credit, the leasing company gets it, so they offer seemingly attractive terms to the lessee. This may not yet be true for Ford (as best I can tell.... leasing information is very difficult to come by).

redEV
Posts: 61
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:53 am
Location: Chicago

Re: Anyone with insight on when available in Arizona?

Sun Aug 26, 2012 4:02 am

jlsoaz wrote:
redEV wrote: have to commit to a 2-year Volt Lease, since Ford just couldn't get off its behind in time.

It is not just the engineering and shake-out period in which GM and Nissan and Mitsubishi are ahead. It is also in financing. Those three seem to have realized that with the 7500 credit, the leasing company gets it, so they offer seemingly attractive terms to the lessee. This may not yet be true for Ford (as best I can tell.... leasing information is very difficult to come by).
Can't speak about Mitsu, but I think GM's and certainly Nissan's (NMAC - Nissan Motor Acceptance Corporation) leasing is an extension of the car companies themselves so THEY actually get the $7,500 rebate; even more interesting about Ford is even though its very limited availability, they're already offering a $1,000 incentive on the C-Max hybrid --- of course this one doesn't get any federal incentives just the Energi (plug-in) does but still? No leasing deals but discount financing instead of the cash incentive as well ... It appears that they pre-built 566 of them in July (see article below) far more than the FFE so again I see these PHEV's getting more traction. We haven't had one moment of regret with our LEAF but to be honest we may have been just as happy with an FFE if they came out first even with the higher price premium but as with some car transactions you can typically only wait so long (trade-in values, condition of car being replaced, lease expiring, etc., etc.) before you need to get something --- we have a lot of folks who have Volts over on the mynissanleaf forum so you should be happy with it even though not a Ford! In AZ lots of concern over losing battery capacity with the heat in such a short time, we don't have that here in the midwest so can understand that as well ... so far the hybrid C-Max has done well in early road tests, can't wait to see how the Energi version does but looks like 201 for that.

http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2012 ... -back.html

By the way the 19 launch markets this time around are ...

Austin and Houston, Texas; Boston; Chicago; Denver; Detroit; Los Angeles; San Francisco; San Diego; New York City; northern New Jersey; Orlando; Phoenix and Tucson, Ariz.; Portland, Ore.; Raleigh-Durham, N.C.; Richmond, Va.; Seattle; and Washington, D.C.

jlsoaz
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 3:15 pm

Re: Anyone with insight on when available in Arizona?

Sun Aug 26, 2012 2:11 pm

redEV wrote:
jlsoaz wrote: have to commit to a 2-year Volt Lease, since Ford just couldn't get off its behind in time.

It is not just the engineering and shake-out period in which GM and Nissan and Mitsubishi are ahead. It is also in financing. Those three seem to have realized that with the 7500 credit, the leasing company gets it, so they offer seemingly attractive terms to the lessee. This may not yet be true for Ford (as best I can tell.... leasing information is very difficult to come by).
Can't speak about Mitsu, but I think GM's and certainly Nissan's (NMAC - Nissan Motor Acceptance Corporation) leasing is an extension of the car companies themselves so THEY actually get the $7,500 rebate; even more interesting about Ford is even though its very limited availability, they're already offering a $1,000 incentive on the C-Max hybrid --- of course this one doesn't get any federal incentives just the Energi (plug-in) does but still? No leasing deals but discount financing instead of the cash incentive as well ... It appears that they pre-built 566 of them in July (see article below) far more than the FFE so again I see these PHEV's getting more traction. We haven't had one moment of regret with our LEAF but to be honest we may have been just as happy with an FFE if they came out first even with the higher price premium but as with some car transactions you can typically only wait so long (trade-in values, condition of car being replaced, lease expiring, etc., etc.) before you need to get something --- we have a lot of folks who have Volts over on the mynissanleaf forum so you should be happy with it even though not a Ford! In AZ lots of concern over losing battery capacity with the heat in such a short time, we don't have that here in the midwest so can understand that as well ... so far the hybrid C-Max has done well in early road tests, can't wait to see how the Energi version does but looks like 201 for that.

http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2012 ... -back.html

By the way the 19 launch markets this time around are ...

Austin and Houston, Texas; Boston; Chicago; Denver; Detroit; Los Angeles; San Francisco; San Diego; New York City; northern New Jersey; Orlando; Phoenix and Tucson, Ariz.; Portland, Ore.; Raleigh-Durham, N.C.; Richmond, Va.; Seattle; and Washington, D.C.
[/quote]

Thanks, like your points. I have never been sure as to NMAC, but I'll take your point as a working assumption. It is not GM which directly receives the $7500 credit but rather Ally Financial (the old GMAC, which I believe technically is not part of GM any more in a substantial way) and other banks also do some of the leasing. What I am also not certain of is whether the bank always gets the full credit or whether this depends on the income of the lessee.

With respect to the C-Max Energi and the Fusion Energi, both PHEVs appear not to use liquid cooling for the battery, but otherwise seem of interest for me as a potential buyer. Unfortunately, they are still, to me here in Arizona, vaporware, along with the long-promised FFE. the C-MAX non-pluggable hybrid is of no interest to me, since I can't charge the battery, and so it was not much more than annoyance when the salesperson mentioned it coming soon over the phone.

So, I guess Ford will be coming to market in its limited and slow way with a response to the Volt and the Prius PHEV more than two years after the Volt first hit the market, and will hit the market with the FFE about 22 months (or so) after Nissan started delivering BEVs to some American buyers and lessees. I am hoping Ford is not as slow to come around on the lease prices for the FFE, but I think it will be too late for my own personal decision. I like your acknowledgment from a distance of issues that others might have, and issues where the timing is different for each of us. Just this weekend I started to have an issue with my car that is acting up just a little and it acts as an impetus on this whole decision.

Taking a longer view, there could be reasons one might praise Ford in this or that area of taking their time (maybe in some ways it helps them), but as a potential purchaser, and one who traditionally needs to bottom-fish for used car values and so is interested for the cars to get out there and the used market to develop, I am quite frustrated.

brennG
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:36 am

Re: Anyone with insight on when available in Arizona?

Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:50 am

Really? Well I thought Ford are creating high quality cars. No doubt, up to now the Prius has dominated the hybrid industry in the U.S. That may all be changing with the Ford C-Max. It has existed since 2003 in Europe, but finally crossed the Atlantic to enthusiastic reviews. Somehow the reason why Ford C-Max comes to America is to challenge Prius.

Return to “News and Main Ford Focus Electric Forum”