cpwl
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri May 09, 2014 5:35 am
Location: Gatineau, QC, Canada

No Ford Long Range BEV

Mon Apr 18, 2016 5:53 am

http://gas2.org/2016/04/18/ford-says-no ... ctric-car/

Well if this report is accurate, and given Ford’s less than enthusiastic history with the FFE it probably is, we can forget about a long range BEV product from Ford until BEVs gain a significant market share and simply cannot be ignored or “rationalized away”. So no long range Fusion/MKZ for the foreseeable and even mid-range future! Serious bummer Ford!

Even if I was willing to accept a “hybrid” the Ford Energi models (Fusion would be my preference) just don’t have an adequate all-electric range to account for typical daily in-city driving.

Since I refuse to support GM (maybe a 0.01% chance on a still non-extant and non-planned big Cadillac BEV) it's probably a 4 year wait until the Model 3 order reservation list is sufficiently clear to seriously think about getting into that queue or take the risk, albeit relatively minor, on the battery health of a CPO Model S.


Thanks and Cheers

Carl

jmueller065
Posts: 2398
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:36 am
Location: Southeastern MI
Contact: Website

Re: No Ford Long Range BEV

Mon Apr 18, 2016 6:50 am

That's actually kind of old news: Ford has been saying they will make a 100 mile FFE since early February:
https://spareelectrons.wordpress.com/20 ... something/

(And much of the other stuff is the same...nada, zippo, "we're performance cars, not that icky BEV crap"--yeah ok I paraphrased.)
2018 Cajun Red Chevy Bolt
2016 Magnetic C-Max Energi (lease returned)
2014 Sunset Escape
2014 Thor Axis (V-10)
2013 Focus Electric (lease returned Jan 2016 for the C-Max above)
https://spareelectrons.wordpress.com/

cpwl
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri May 09, 2014 5:35 am
Location: Gatineau, QC, Canada

Re: No Ford Long Range BEV

Mon Apr 18, 2016 7:52 am

jmueller065 wrote:That's actually kind of old news: Ford has been saying they will make a 100 mile FFE since early February:
https://spareelectrons.wordpress.com/20 ... something/

(And much of the other stuff is the same...nada, zippo, "we're performance cars, not that icky BEV crap"--yeah ok I paraphrased.)

Yes the 100 mile FFE with SAE Combi plug DCQC has been in the offing for several months and at this point is far from being a secret or surprise. This development is giving me a touch of buyers remorse with Montgomery being a fairly early 2015 build FFE who will become both obsolete and essentially worthless as soon as the first 2017 rolls off the assembly line. (Such is the fate of an early adopter!) What I thought more important was the statement that they would not be pursuing the 200 mile BEV.

However since my earlier posting I came upon:

http://www.hybridcars.com/first-hyundai ... -mile-evs/

This one seems to leave a bit of 'wiggle room' that would "save face" if Ford developed a higher level 200 mile BEV, not on the Focus Chassis but perhaps the Fusion/MKZ or even a dedicated BEV chassis. I know this is very highly un-likely but it does leave a bit of wiggle room. More and more it becomes apparent that my next BEV will sadly NOT be a Ford product.


Thanks and Cheers

Carl

jmueller065
Posts: 2398
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:36 am
Location: Southeastern MI
Contact: Website

Re: No Ford Long Range BEV

Mon Apr 18, 2016 8:33 am

The article I linked to in my post:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/car ... /79628748/

Implies that Ford's stock is getting beat up due to them not having an answer for the Bolt/Model 3. How long will Ford take that beating before doing something!?
2018 Cajun Red Chevy Bolt
2016 Magnetic C-Max Energi (lease returned)
2014 Sunset Escape
2014 Thor Axis (V-10)
2013 Focus Electric (lease returned Jan 2016 for the C-Max above)
https://spareelectrons.wordpress.com/

electrons
Posts: 115
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2016 4:22 pm

Re: No Ford Long Range BEV

Mon Apr 18, 2016 11:32 am

There are some advantages to having an "antique" Focus Electric with a 76-mile range:
  • 1. I can get 50 miles into it with a 120v 12-hour charge overnight. No electrician called and paid to put in a 240v NEMA 14.50 in my garage, saves $1,000 there. Any more range requirements would really mean I'd need to spring for that 240v upgrade.

    2. The average U.S. driver goes 41 miles per day. Allowing for some day-to-day variation, our Focus's 60+ mile range is about right for a lot of people as a 2nd car especially.

    3. Focus Electrics, new and used, are cheap now. Mine cost me $15k cash after all rebates, and its a Focus with some option goodies too. Used ones with few miles coming off leases go for around $10k.

    4. The Chevy Bolt needs almost 1,000 lbs of battery to make their 200 mile range target. Our Focus Electrics batteries weight only 60% of that, which mean we handle better on the road.
Sure its upsetting Ford right now can't even equal a Kia Soul EV's current range of 90 miles, but the 100 mile Focus Electric will be plenty for a lot of folks. 200 miles just adds cost and weight!

Chrispy294ss
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:50 pm
Location: Vancouver BC Canada

Re: No Ford Long Range BEV

Mon Apr 18, 2016 9:28 pm

Would I like more range.... Yes, but
It needs to be enough for inter city travel.

People these days ask 2 things mostly once they hear I have an electric.
How long does it take to charge? Another answer for another time.
Don't you want more Mileage.

For number 2 I always state that it's a city car for me
And in the summer I frequently only charge to 85%.
Why would I need to carry around a big lump of additional battery?

Mileage without a supercharger network for intercity travel is lost to me.

Long live the 76 mile focus. :-)
Chris
Langley, BC Canada
2017 Silver FFE

scottt
Site Moderator
Posts: 334
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:00 am

Re: No Ford Long Range BEV

Tue Apr 19, 2016 3:33 am

cpwl wrote:http://gas2.org/2016/04/18/ford-says-no ... ctric-car/

Well if this report is accurate, and given Ford’s less than enthusiastic history with the FFE it probably is, we can forget about a long range BEV product from Ford until BEVs gain a significant market share and simply cannot be ignored or “rationalized away”. So no long range Fusion/MKZ for the foreseeable and even mid-range future! Serious bummer Ford!

Even if I was willing to accept a “hybrid” the Ford Energi models (Fusion would be my preference) just don’t have an adequate all-electric range to account for typical daily in-city driving.

Since I refuse to support GM (maybe a 0.01% chance on a still non-extant and non-planned big Cadillac BEV) it's probably a 4 year wait until the Model 3 order reservation list is sufficiently clear to seriously think about getting into that queue or take the risk, albeit relatively minor, on the battery health of a CPO Model S.


Thanks and Cheers

Carl
Keep in mind the $7500 tax incentive for Tesla will be long gone before that.

http://money.cnn.com/2016/04/06/autos/t ... ax-credit/
2015 Magnetic FFE (aka Magneto) - Retired
2017 Kona Blue FFE (aka King Kona) - Current

cpwl
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri May 09, 2014 5:35 am
Location: Gatineau, QC, Canada

Re: No Ford Long Range BEV

Tue Apr 19, 2016 8:03 am

@scottt. I was about to say "clearly not applicable to me" and then noticed I had not entered my location in my profile so there was no way for you to tell I'm outside the US. Thanks for inadvertently prompting me to correct that omission. So, indeed the Fed Tax Credit will be long gone by the time I can move up to a larger BEV but since it was never applicable to me it cannot be a factor in any future BEV purchase even if I could advance it. More importantly chances are that the provincial rebate programmes (actual cash back but only applicable to new BEV sales) will also be expired by the time I can get a Model 3 or CPO Model S so I'll be "out of luck" anyway. Oh well, either car would be sufficiently good to justify its purchase even without a rebate or other incentive.

Thanks and Cheers

Carl

MNEV
Posts: 36
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:59 am

Re: No Ford Long Range BEV

Tue Apr 19, 2016 1:25 pm

Sad but true. Fords idea that 100 miles is to "satisfy a big chunk of the population" is totally laughable. They will have to heavily discount the car the get any sales when people have a 200 mile range car available.
Chrispy294ss wrote:Would I like more range.... Yes, but
It needs to be enough for inter city travel.

People these days ask 2 things mostly once they hear I have an electric.
How long does it take to charge? Another answer for another time.
Don't you want more Mileage.

For number 2 I always state that it's a city car for me
And in the summer I frequently only charge to 85%.
Why would I need to carry around a big lump of additional battery?

Mileage without a supercharger network for intercity travel is lost to me.

Long live the 76 mile focus. :-)
I have been shocked at how fast the high speed chargers have been rolling out in our area. With a 200 mile range and with current available DC charging I could travel comfortably well beyond the Twin Cities.

The 76 miles is not a huge deal 9 months out of the year... BUT after playing the range game with the heater for three winters it gets old. A 25-33% range boost would help a little, but not eliminate the winter shortcomings. Ford really need to get closer the 150 miles to make it a comfortable winter car in the northland where you can run the heat as wanted rather than to just defrost the windows while bundled up in a parka and heavy winter boots just to drive a distance.

Ford will have a compliance car that they will have to give a health subsidy to sell enough in CA and other compliance states. It is too bad because other than some cold winter driving it has been a good little car.


Now my theory is ford is saving there tax credits sales until others figure out the right formula (car design and battery) and then they can under cut them with the $7500 credit that the major electric players will have exhausted so they can corner the market for 2 years.... AND THEN THE WORLD buhahahaha...

jmueller065
Posts: 2398
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:36 am
Location: Southeastern MI
Contact: Website

Re: No Ford Long Range BEV

Tue Apr 19, 2016 3:36 pm

MNEV wrote:The 76 miles is not a huge deal 9 months out of the year... BUT after playing the range game with the heater for three winters it gets old. A 25-33% range boost would help a little, but not eliminate the winter shortcomings. Ford really need to get closer the 150 miles to make it a comfortable winter car in the northland where you can run the heat as wanted rather than to just defrost the windows while bundled up in a parka and heavy winter boots just to drive a distance.
Or simply come up with a more efficient method for heating the car.

Sadly us humans haven't figured out a better way of generating heat than burning stuff...
2018 Cajun Red Chevy Bolt
2016 Magnetic C-Max Energi (lease returned)
2014 Sunset Escape
2014 Thor Axis (V-10)
2013 Focus Electric (lease returned Jan 2016 for the C-Max above)
https://spareelectrons.wordpress.com/

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