Ford @ CES

Ford Focus Electric Forum

Help Support Ford Focus Electric Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

jmueller065

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 12, 2013
Messages
2,398
Location
Southeastern MI
Note that Ford will be making a keynote address at CES this morning (8:30am PT):
http://www.cnet.com/news/fords-2015-ces-keynote-presentation-join-us-tuesday-live-blog/

This is notable for us because it was at the 2011 CES when Ford introduced the FFE.
 
Well here is news: Ford has some FFE's with CCS on them!
2bea8f74-de08-4c51-a4a5-1b0a8158198c.jpg

Note the DC charging.
Also note the charge port door there is more conventional than the turny-thingy on the current FFE.
 
Here's is some info from that keynote

http://live.theverge.com/ford-2015-ces-keynote-liveblog/

* Ford testing car sharing with half the fleet electric
* Ford testing DC fast charging
 
I sure hope they have some REAL innovations. My lease has 18 months to go, and the way it's looking right now, I won't be able to justify replacing the FFE with another Ford product.

Please....

150 mile range (genuinely achievable under a wide variety of conditions)
Heat pump heating
DC or at least 10 kW charging

That would be enough to keep me

Throw in a little range extender engine like BMW and take over the world
 
Where in the world is the talk about the FFE? Any way to point us to the key pages?

Wow that Verge live blogging was a waste of time. 9,000 entries to say nothing. Ouch.

OK - the CNET link has like 60 pages of posts.
 
EVA said:
Where in the world is the talk about the FFE? Any way to point us to the key pages?
The only mention is one line in the CNet post just after the picture I posted where he said that they are testing DC charging.. That's it. A single morsel of FFE hope--and a picture. (Page 5 in the middle.)

Fields says they're also testing fast-speed DC chargers, and are working with fast-food restaurants to deploy these charging stations.
 
michael said:
I sure hope they have some REAL innovations. My lease has 18 months to go, and the way it's looking right now, I won't be able to justify replacing the FFE with another Ford product.

Please....

150 mile range (genuinely achievable under a wide variety of conditions)
Heat pump heating
DC or at least 10 kW charging

That would be enough to keep me

Throw in a little range extender engine like BMW and take over the world
I realize you are dreaming and that's cool.

Some way to heat the car without killing the battery would be amazing. Let it warm the batteries at the same time. I don't care if it is some crazy technology.

Faster charging for the FFE would be the best thing in the world. The only trouble is stringing that together so the car can go farther - a la superchargers. Just don't see that happening. Destination charging is a brighter idea for this car or anything with 150 mile range.

That 150 mile range - there will always be caveats with it. Variety of conditions is impossible to meet. One person will say speed limit + 5 MPH should be reasonable. Cold weather, I should still get my 150 miles or whatever the rated range no matter the temperature. You're never going to see that happen.

Tesla - Last week I took my son back to college, I should have arrived with over 100 miles buffer. Instead, the car only had 40 miles range left. According to your requirements, I should have been mad, the car didn't deliver. 260 miles of range turned into 180. There's something way wrong with that. Well the caveats were big. Drove highway in the cold (25 degrees and very windy) with four big people and lots of stuff. Drove over 70 MPH - sometimes 80. Kept the car at 65 degrees. Was that "real world" 150 miles of range?

Count me out on the range extender motor - why am I going to haul around all that weight, stupid gasoline, and maintenance that I might need one day? It will be interesting to see how many people buy that little BMW motor.
 
EVA said:
Some way to heat the car without killing the battery would be amazing. Let it warm the batteries at the same time. I don't care if it is some crazy technology.
Here is your "crazy technology" to heat the car without killing the battery:
http://www.technologyreview.com/news/513466/novel-heating-system-could-improve-electric-cars-range/
 
EVA said:
michael said:
I sure hope they have some REAL innovations. My lease has 18 months to go, and the way it's looking right now, I won't be able to justify replacing the FFE with another Ford product.

Please....

150 mile range (genuinely achievable under a wide variety of conditions)
Heat pump heating
DC or at least 10 kW charging

That would be enough to keep me

Throw in a little range extender engine like BMW and take over the world
I realize you are dreaming and that's cool.

Some way to heat the car without killing the battery would be amazing. Let it warm the batteries at the same time. I don't care if it is some crazy technology.

Faster charging for the FFE would be the best thing in the world. The only trouble is stringing that together so the car can go farther - a la superchargers. Just don't see that happening. Destination charging is a brighter idea for this car or anything with 150 mile range.

That 150 mile range - there will always be caveats with it. Variety of conditions is impossible to meet. One person will say speed limit + 5 MPH should be reasonable. Cold weather, I should still get my 150 miles or whatever the rated range no matter the temperature. You're never going to see that happen.

Tesla - Last week I took my son back to college, I should have arrived with over 100 miles buffer. Instead, the car only had 40 miles range left. According to your requirements, I should have been mad, the car didn't deliver. 260 miles of range turned into 180. There's something way wrong with that. Well the caveats were big. Drove highway in the cold (25 degrees and very windy) with four big people and lots of stuff. Drove over 70 MPH - sometimes 80. Kept the car at 65 degrees. Was that "real world" 150 miles of range?

Count me out on the range extender motor - why am I going to haul around all that weight, stupid gasoline, and maintenance that I might need one day? It will be interesting to see how many people buy that little BMW motor.


Actually not dreaming, I'm serious.

150 mile range need not be under "all" circumstances, but at least reasonable ones. Let's say 50 degrees outside, 70 cabin temperature, 65 MPH? I'd say the current FFE has a 60 mile range under reasonable conditions, so Ok, I'd settle for twice that. Today's RAV-4 EV has 120 mile range under reasonable conditions at extended charge, 100 at normal charge. I drive 80-100 miles on a typical day, so I am dependent on being able to get a charge. Without workplace or other destination charging, the FFE wouldn't do the job

The heat pump was for me, not the battery. Nissan provides that in the Leaf, not too much to ask. The present heater draws 6 kW when running at full blast. In an hour it could use 20-25 miles of range (if working full tilt to maintain cabin temperature). That's a huge handicap in cold weather.

The battery would probably be at least twice the current size (35-40 kWh usable), so 10kW charging is needed to retain the 4-hour charge we currently have. Toyota and Mercedes offer that.

And I would probably go without the range extender, as you say, since my fleet already includes two Volts. But it would be the ticket for single-car owners or those who are totally hung up on "what if I want to drive to Vegas..". That's why it would be a real turning point in attractiveness to the masses. But it's not too much to ask the option...they sell a lot more BMW I3s, Energis, and Volts than FFEs. You and I may be willing to go without the ICE, but most people aren't yet ready. I have a friend who owns three Volts, all with 10,000 mile a year leases. Nobody in his family drive far. But I could not convince him to buy an FFE in place of one of the Volts...."what if i want to go somewhere it can't reach..."


But another 70 mile electric car? An Energi with only 7 kWh? Neither one is attractive for my next car. So that's why I'm saying as things stand now, Ford doesn't offer what I would want. Don't get me wrong, the FFE is serving me very, very well, 29000 electric miles in 15 months, but I expect more next time. Chevy had a chance to do really well with the Volt 2.0 but based on the rumors, it will be more like a Volt 1.2. Surely by then someone will have taken the next step. The FFE is now a 3 year old design, time for Ford to do better.

I hope...
 
michael said:
I sure hope they have some REAL innovations. My lease has 18 months to go, and the way it's looking right now, I won't be able to justify replacing the FFE with another Ford product.

Please....

150 mile range (genuinely achievable under a wide variety of conditions)
....
The 150 mile is certainly not a dream. Carlos Ghosn, head of the Nissan Renault alliance states unequivocally that the new Leaf will have double the range, easily. And since it will have a more traditional look, it remains a real possibility for me in 2017.

Further, LG, the battery supplier for the FFE and Volt states that within two years, battery range will exceed 150 miles on at least one of its customer's vehicles. (LG won't say who.)
 
Here is a video of the keynote:
http://www.cesweb.org/News/CES-TV/Video-Detail?adbid=552890793610838016&adbpl=tw&adbpr=15676492&dID=DliGIusJiD1C&sID=OhYr3WpdgEMj&scmp=social_20150107_38408167&vID=UTlmIgRwbxXH
Discussion of fast charging (CCS) starts around 29 minutes in and lasts for less than 10-15 seconds.
 
Ford Electric Vehicles posted about car sharing on their Facebook page. What is interesting about that note is that they included this picture:
10931412_813535182045219_5887513607513514673_n.png

You can clearly see the additional CCS plug on the FFE here (the two "pins" below the charge plug).

Their Facebook post is here:
https://www.facebook.com/FordElectricVehicles/photos/a.123482424383835.19897.112397758825635/813535182045219/?type=1
 
unplugged said:
I would suggest that the rather large print "DC Charging" is also a good giveaway that the car uses CCS with DC Quick Charge.
Yes it is a giveaway, but in the original picture from CES you can see that its a standard Level 2 EVSE plugged in and can't see the CCS. Just want to verify that what they say is true, and to verify that the CCS plug is in the same spot (I know why wouldn't it be. Well because OEM's do some boneheaded stuff now and then thats why).
 
http://www.autoblog.com/2015/01/23/ford-silicon-valley-research-center-official/

Ford does seem interested in the future, as they open up R&D near Stanford, they talk of self-driving cars, improved speech recognition, etc. So there are a lot of forward thinking people at Ford, but for whatever reason, the FFE is not something they care to talk up or market. Not sure why. I mean self-driving cars will be cool, but they are years away and people don't want to buy EVs, so not sure why they think Self-Driving cars deserve far more attention than their own EV.
 
Some way to heat the car without killing the battery would be amazing. Let it warm the batteries at the same time. I don't care if it is some crazy technology.


The Chevrolet Volt has a heated and cooled battery pack similar to the FFE. I am not sure about the FFE, but, on the Volt, if the system was heating or
cooling the pack, you could siphon some of the heated or cooled air into the passenger cabin. I seldom used my climate control in mine. If hot, I would
put fan on low and when the the A/C kicked on for the pack, the air was cooler, I would then turn the fan up. Same when it was cold. In almost 20K miles,
I don't think that I used the climate control more than a few times. Pretty draconian measures living in Las Vegas, but, I have other vehicles to use if
climate is an issue.
I have only had my FFE since the beginning of November. Other than preheating the cabin on colder days, I have not used the climate control on
it either. Have to play around and see if there is a similar option with it.
 
Back
Top