jmueller065
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Ford @ CES

Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:00 am

Note that Ford will be making a keynote address at CES this morning (8:30am PT):
http://www.cnet.com/news/fords-2015-ces ... live-blog/

This is notable for us because it was at the 2011 CES when Ford introduced the FFE.
2018 Cajun Red Chevy Bolt
2016 Magnetic C-Max Energi (lease returned)
2014 Sunset Escape
2014 Thor Axis (V-10)
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jmueller065
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Re: Ford @ CES

Tue Jan 06, 2015 9:25 am

Well here is news: Ford has some FFE's with CCS on them!
Image
Note the DC charging.
Also note the charge port door there is more conventional than the turny-thingy on the current FFE.
2018 Cajun Red Chevy Bolt
2016 Magnetic C-Max Energi (lease returned)
2014 Sunset Escape
2014 Thor Axis (V-10)
2013 Focus Electric (lease returned Jan 2016 for the C-Max above)
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Olagon
Posts: 169
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:57 pm

Re: Ford @ CES

Tue Jan 06, 2015 10:16 am

Here's is some info from that keynote

http://live.theverge.com/ford-2015-ces- ... -liveblog/

* Ford testing car sharing with half the fleet electric
* Ford testing DC fast charging
- 2014 FFE Tuxedo with leather charged via home PV

Previous eco cars
- 2012 Mitsubishi iMiev
- 1995 Black Benz E300D running biodiesel
- 1995 Green Benz E300D running biodiesel

Next eco car
- Seven seat SUV all electric < $50,000

michael
Posts: 1113
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Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Ford @ CES

Tue Jan 06, 2015 10:33 am

I sure hope they have some REAL innovations. My lease has 18 months to go, and the way it's looking right now, I won't be able to justify replacing the FFE with another Ford product.

Please....

150 mile range (genuinely achievable under a wide variety of conditions)
Heat pump heating
DC or at least 10 kW charging

That would be enough to keep me

Throw in a little range extender engine like BMW and take over the world
2013 FFE Returned after 3 years with 52,000 miles and battery down to 15.2 kWh
2014 Volt returned with 43,000 miles
2014 Volt 26,000 miles
1967 Corvette 427
1962 Corvette 327
Awaiting a Bolt

EVA
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Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 9:10 pm
Location: Chicago Area

Re: Ford @ CES

Tue Jan 06, 2015 2:42 pm

Where in the world is the talk about the FFE? Any way to point us to the key pages?

Wow that Verge live blogging was a waste of time. 9,000 entries to say nothing. Ouch.

OK - the CNET link has like 60 pages of posts.
2014 Platinum White FFE (Turning in mid Dec. 2016 25,000 miles)
2013 Ingot Silver FFE
2012 Titanium ICE Focus
2014 Tesla Model S 85

jmueller065
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Re: Ford @ CES

Tue Jan 06, 2015 2:55 pm

EVA wrote:Where in the world is the talk about the FFE? Any way to point us to the key pages?
The only mention is one line in the CNet post just after the picture I posted where he said that they are testing DC charging.. That's it. A single morsel of FFE hope--and a picture. (Page 5 in the middle.)
Fields says they're also testing fast-speed DC chargers, and are working with fast-food restaurants to deploy these charging stations.
2018 Cajun Red Chevy Bolt
2016 Magnetic C-Max Energi (lease returned)
2014 Sunset Escape
2014 Thor Axis (V-10)
2013 Focus Electric (lease returned Jan 2016 for the C-Max above)
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EVA
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Re: Ford @ CES

Tue Jan 06, 2015 3:12 pm

michael wrote:I sure hope they have some REAL innovations. My lease has 18 months to go, and the way it's looking right now, I won't be able to justify replacing the FFE with another Ford product.

Please....

150 mile range (genuinely achievable under a wide variety of conditions)
Heat pump heating
DC or at least 10 kW charging

That would be enough to keep me

Throw in a little range extender engine like BMW and take over the world
I realize you are dreaming and that's cool.

Some way to heat the car without killing the battery would be amazing. Let it warm the batteries at the same time. I don't care if it is some crazy technology.

Faster charging for the FFE would be the best thing in the world. The only trouble is stringing that together so the car can go farther - a la superchargers. Just don't see that happening. Destination charging is a brighter idea for this car or anything with 150 mile range.

That 150 mile range - there will always be caveats with it. Variety of conditions is impossible to meet. One person will say speed limit + 5 MPH should be reasonable. Cold weather, I should still get my 150 miles or whatever the rated range no matter the temperature. You're never going to see that happen.

Tesla - Last week I took my son back to college, I should have arrived with over 100 miles buffer. Instead, the car only had 40 miles range left. According to your requirements, I should have been mad, the car didn't deliver. 260 miles of range turned into 180. There's something way wrong with that. Well the caveats were big. Drove highway in the cold (25 degrees and very windy) with four big people and lots of stuff. Drove over 70 MPH - sometimes 80. Kept the car at 65 degrees. Was that "real world" 150 miles of range?

Count me out on the range extender motor - why am I going to haul around all that weight, stupid gasoline, and maintenance that I might need one day? It will be interesting to see how many people buy that little BMW motor.
2014 Platinum White FFE (Turning in mid Dec. 2016 25,000 miles)
2013 Ingot Silver FFE
2012 Titanium ICE Focus
2014 Tesla Model S 85

jmueller065
Posts: 2398
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Re: Ford @ CES

Tue Jan 06, 2015 3:49 pm

EVA wrote:Some way to heat the car without killing the battery would be amazing. Let it warm the batteries at the same time. I don't care if it is some crazy technology.
Here is your "crazy technology" to heat the car without killing the battery:
http://www.technologyreview.com/news/51 ... ars-range/
2018 Cajun Red Chevy Bolt
2016 Magnetic C-Max Energi (lease returned)
2014 Sunset Escape
2014 Thor Axis (V-10)
2013 Focus Electric (lease returned Jan 2016 for the C-Max above)
https://spareelectrons.wordpress.com/

michael
Posts: 1113
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:55 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Ford @ CES

Tue Jan 06, 2015 4:58 pm

EVA wrote:
michael wrote:I sure hope they have some REAL innovations. My lease has 18 months to go, and the way it's looking right now, I won't be able to justify replacing the FFE with another Ford product.

Please....

150 mile range (genuinely achievable under a wide variety of conditions)
Heat pump heating
DC or at least 10 kW charging

That would be enough to keep me

Throw in a little range extender engine like BMW and take over the world
I realize you are dreaming and that's cool.

Some way to heat the car without killing the battery would be amazing. Let it warm the batteries at the same time. I don't care if it is some crazy technology.

Faster charging for the FFE would be the best thing in the world. The only trouble is stringing that together so the car can go farther - a la superchargers. Just don't see that happening. Destination charging is a brighter idea for this car or anything with 150 mile range.

That 150 mile range - there will always be caveats with it. Variety of conditions is impossible to meet. One person will say speed limit + 5 MPH should be reasonable. Cold weather, I should still get my 150 miles or whatever the rated range no matter the temperature. You're never going to see that happen.

Tesla - Last week I took my son back to college, I should have arrived with over 100 miles buffer. Instead, the car only had 40 miles range left. According to your requirements, I should have been mad, the car didn't deliver. 260 miles of range turned into 180. There's something way wrong with that. Well the caveats were big. Drove highway in the cold (25 degrees and very windy) with four big people and lots of stuff. Drove over 70 MPH - sometimes 80. Kept the car at 65 degrees. Was that "real world" 150 miles of range?

Count me out on the range extender motor - why am I going to haul around all that weight, stupid gasoline, and maintenance that I might need one day? It will be interesting to see how many people buy that little BMW motor.

Actually not dreaming, I'm serious.

150 mile range need not be under "all" circumstances, but at least reasonable ones. Let's say 50 degrees outside, 70 cabin temperature, 65 MPH? I'd say the current FFE has a 60 mile range under reasonable conditions, so Ok, I'd settle for twice that. Today's RAV-4 EV has 120 mile range under reasonable conditions at extended charge, 100 at normal charge. I drive 80-100 miles on a typical day, so I am dependent on being able to get a charge. Without workplace or other destination charging, the FFE wouldn't do the job

The heat pump was for me, not the battery. Nissan provides that in the Leaf, not too much to ask. The present heater draws 6 kW when running at full blast. In an hour it could use 20-25 miles of range (if working full tilt to maintain cabin temperature). That's a huge handicap in cold weather.

The battery would probably be at least twice the current size (35-40 kWh usable), so 10kW charging is needed to retain the 4-hour charge we currently have. Toyota and Mercedes offer that.

And I would probably go without the range extender, as you say, since my fleet already includes two Volts. But it would be the ticket for single-car owners or those who are totally hung up on "what if I want to drive to Vegas..". That's why it would be a real turning point in attractiveness to the masses. But it's not too much to ask the option...they sell a lot more BMW I3s, Energis, and Volts than FFEs. You and I may be willing to go without the ICE, but most people aren't yet ready. I have a friend who owns three Volts, all with 10,000 mile a year leases. Nobody in his family drive far. But I could not convince him to buy an FFE in place of one of the Volts...."what if i want to go somewhere it can't reach..."


But another 70 mile electric car? An Energi with only 7 kWh? Neither one is attractive for my next car. So that's why I'm saying as things stand now, Ford doesn't offer what I would want. Don't get me wrong, the FFE is serving me very, very well, 29000 electric miles in 15 months, but I expect more next time. Chevy had a chance to do really well with the Volt 2.0 but based on the rumors, it will be more like a Volt 1.2. Surely by then someone will have taken the next step. The FFE is now a 3 year old design, time for Ford to do better.

I hope...
2013 FFE Returned after 3 years with 52,000 miles and battery down to 15.2 kWh
2014 Volt returned with 43,000 miles
2014 Volt 26,000 miles
1967 Corvette 427
1962 Corvette 327
Awaiting a Bolt

unplugged
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Location: Orange County, California

Re: Ford @ CES

Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:16 pm

michael wrote:I sure hope they have some REAL innovations. My lease has 18 months to go, and the way it's looking right now, I won't be able to justify replacing the FFE with another Ford product.

Please....

150 mile range (genuinely achievable under a wide variety of conditions)
....
The 150 mile is certainly not a dream. Carlos Ghosn, head of the Nissan Renault alliance states unequivocally that the new Leaf will have double the range, easily. And since it will have a more traditional look, it remains a real possibility for me in 2017.

Further, LG, the battery supplier for the FFE and Volt states that within two years, battery range will exceed 150 miles on at least one of its customer's vehicles. (LG won't say who.)
May 2013 Ice Storm once leased and currently a 2017 White Platinum

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