Be careful where you plug in!

Leaf owner charged with stealing 5 cents of electricity!
This is just way over the top but, unfortunately, I can easily believe it!
But really how much charge was he expecting to get while his son was at Tennis? 1 - 3 miles??

This is way over the top. How much did it cost in man hours to deal with this issue? I found myself in the same position as this person minus the authorities.

I drove to my daughters softball game and my car warned me I might not have enough range to make it home. I drove around and found an outlet and plugged in. I left a note on my dash with my cell number in case someone had an issue with my charging and went off to enjoy the games. I saw some activity later in the day and walked over to make sure all was fine. I thanked the people for the outlet and then they started to ask about the car. All in all it was fine. I gained a few miles, felt more confident about driving home and had a nice conversation.

So sad!

The officer was either jeolous or had some sort of vendetta. And whatever the case, the right thing to do would have been to give a warning or make aware that permission would be needed.
The sad part is that the tax money to pay an officer to arrest 5 cent criminals with no mal intent could be better served elsewhere. In addition, being a school, I'm sure that parent contributes many times more than that freely to the school in time and money.

Real bad PR. And sure, they say they would do it again, but only because they wouldn't want to admit they made the wrong call.

I agree that it was wrong to plug in without permission; however, the arrest was not justified in my opinion. If he had plugged in his cell phone in that same location instead, would/should he had been arrested? There is a difference of opinion on where the line is drawn. At what amount of power is it too much? At the airport, you will find people sprawled around any available outlet. Should they be arrested or simply asked to unplug?

Now what if I plugged my car into my neighbors outdoor outlet? What about if I plugged my cell phone into my neighbors outlet? Both would be wrong because of the intent is different...I'd be clearly taking from my neighbor when I was perfectly able to plug into my own house.

I think the reason is a bit muddy because of precedent. There is a clear precedent of charging up outside the home...whether it is laptops or cell phones. No one really cares at the airport because the intent is understood and it is a convenience offered; however, I'm sure no one checks to see if it is ok before they plug in. In this case, I think the intent of the arrested man was similar to that of a guy at the airport wanting to top off before getting on a plane. Again, not something I would do, but not worthy of an arrest.

I think the arrest was justified. Think about it this way. You're driving your gas engine vehicle and you get to the school and your gauge reads 2 miles to empty. So you walk around until you find a gas can by the manitanance facility. You grab the gas can and put gas in your car. Now is it theft?

Leaving a note may have made things smoother, but still doesn't remove yourself from breaking the law.

Yeah I say way over the top! I agree with the driver that it's not much different than plugging in a cell phone to charge etc. sure the car if plugged in for a bit would use more juice than a cell phone but really what's the crime here. And I'm suprised the cop would even pay attention to something like that. Seems kinda odd. But I know I'm gonna keep plugging in when I can. I leave a note on my dash as well so if anyone has an issue then can at least contact me.

jachady said:

I think the arrest was justified. Think about it this way. You're driving your gas engine vehicle and you get to the school and your gauge reads 2 miles to empty. So you walk around until you find a gas can by the manitanance facility. You grab the gas can and put gas in your car. Now is it theft?

Leaving a note may have made things smoother, but still doesn't remove yourself from breaking the law.

Click to expand...

//devil's advocate
You're driving to the school and you're hungry, so you walk around the school until you find someone's lunch. You grab it and eat it.
This is an example of what didn't happen.

Opinion follows:
Gasoline, like someone's lunch, is a tangible item that isn't instantly and continually replenished. The "taking without asking" of electricity does not deprive others of the ability to also use that electricity.
This is a slippery slope. The video mentions others charge their computers/phones/whatever using the school power - is that theft as well then? Someone leaves the lights on in a classroom overnight - would that be a crime?
It also mentions using the water fountains. Same idea there.

How would one get permission to use an outlet? Who would officially be the one to contact? I doubt there's a procedure for such a request anyway. If one asked the principal of the school, an argument could be made he should have asked a superintendent. If he asked a superintendent, it could be argued it's up to the School Board.

I can understand a warning, possibly a ticket, but physically arresting someone for this is just ridiculous. Huge opportunity cost for all involved.

I had posted this news item to the evdl.org last night
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-EV-owner-charged-w-stealing-0-05-worth-of-juice-video-td4666537.html
so as to keep it historically documented on the evdl.org nabble archive.
I checked the URL of the newswire on this thread and it has been updated, so check back regularly for their updates on this on-going story.

Also, I updated last night's post (above URL) with several of the copy-cat newswires. Looks like, for better or worse, the plugin community is in the spot-light again (as if the fires weren't enough).
These copy-cat newswires seem to be equally divided from "Those darn electrical-things!" to "A Police injustice over 5 cents!".

On that thread, I also posted my personal experience in a similar way. It only cost me $500 to get my EV back.

Bottom line: today there are plenty of public EVSE, use them, or "always get permission!" before plugging in.
{brucedp.150m.com}

brucedp said:

I had posted this news item to the evdl.org last night
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-EV-owner-charged-w-stealing-0-05-worth-of-juice-video-td4666537.html
so as to keep it historically documented on the evdl.org nabble archive.
I checked the URL of the newswire on this thread and it has been updated, so check back regularly for their updates on this on-going story.

Also, I updated last night's post (above URL) with several of the copy-cat newswires. Looks like, for better or worse, the plugin community is in the spot-light again (as if the fires weren't enough).
These copy-cat newswires seem to be equally divided from "Those darn electrical-things!" to "A Police injustice over 5 cents!".

On that thread, I also posted my personal experience in a similar way. It only cost me $500 to get my EV back.

Bottom line: today there are plenty of public EVSE, use them, or "always get permission!" before plugging in.
{brucedp.150m.com}

Click to expand...

What happend? I'm assuming you must have gotten towed. Can you share what happend?

The full story, as I understand it, is that he was using the schools tennis court. The school told him not to use it. I'm not sure if the school has much of a case there, since it's taxpayer funded. In the city where I used to live, a local church won a similar case after being denied access to the gymnasium of a nearby school. Their argument- 'our members are taxpayers, and this is a publicly funded facility'. Anyway, back to the LEAF story- One day, he decided to plug in while using the facility, someone called 911, police came, searched his car, and then found the owner who was adamant that he had the right to use the outlet. Police didn't like his attitude, so they eventually charged him with theft and arrested him weeks later.

Since this is a publicly funded, open-to-public tennis court, he has the right to use the facility, in my opinion. It's no different than using a drinking fountain at a park, or charging a laptop in the library. If it's not locked up and doesn't say "not for public use", then it's my assumption that it's available for reasonable public use. Charging while playing tennis is reasonable, in my opinion. I've used park drinking fountains (sinister, I know), I've charged my laptop at the library (EVIL!), and I've used park outlets to charge my LEAF (such deviousness!)- I don't think any of that is unreasonable.

The example of municipal gas pumps is a little off- since those are generally behind locked gates and clearly marked as being for municipal vehicles only. They may be publicly funded, but they are definitely not open to the public. This tennis court was publicly funded and open to the public, and there were no signs saying "no".

What should outrage people from this story isn't that someone got arrested for using 5 cents worth of electricity from a publicly funded and publicly available facility, or that someone would have the audacity to steal electricity from a school, or that someone would have the balls to adamantly maintain his innocence with the police claiming he's a thief- it's that the police admitted to entering and searching the guys vehicle without permission and without a warrant.

JMueller thank you again for a great post.

That whole incident simply reminded me, I'm not entitled to electricity where ever I see an outlet. It is just common courtesy to ask if it is OK to charge my car with an outlet. A charging station, drinking fountain, other public amenities are a completely different thing. A 110V outlet outside a building is not necessarily a public thing to use. There is no entitlement to electricity.

There was a hint at something more than just the guy took electricity and then was arrested. There always is in reports like this. I would guess the guy was a jerk and taunted the police about something else. They found a reason to take him in. It had little or nothing to do with the electricity.

It is funny that the electric company calculated that it was 4 cents of electricity.

First off I wholly object to the notion that because it is public property it is ok to steal. It is true, I pay my taxes to the school... TO FUND EDUCATION, not to fund your electric whatever! You are essentially stealing from me and my kids. Stop it!

However, common sense needs to play a role here too. In this case, over the amount stolen, things got blown WAY out of proportion. It is not like he stole gas out of a city lawn mower. ...well... it sorta is... but you see what I am saying.

The updates to the story put the whole situation in the proper context:

"The officer's initial incident report gives a good indication of how difficult and argumentative the individual was to deal with. He made no attempt to apologize or simply say oops and he wouldn't do it again. Instead he continued being argumentative, acknowledged he did not have permission and then accused the officer of having damaged his car door. The officer told him that was not true and that the vehicle and existing damage was already on his vehicles video camera from when he drove up."

"The report made its way to Sgt Ford's desk for a follow up investigation. He contacted the middle school and inquired of several administrative personnel whether the individual had permission to use power. He was advised no. Sgt. Ford showed a photo to the school resource officer who recognized Mr. Kamooneh. Sgt Ford was further advised that Mr. Kamooneh had previously been advised he was not allowed on the school tennis courts without permission from the school . This was apparently due to his interfering with the use of the tennis courts previously during school hours."

I think this holier-than-thou a**hole deserves worse treatment than he received.

Yeah I knew there was going to be more to the story. It couldn't have been as straight forward as was reported (there is *always* more to the story than what is reported).

Ahh,,figures. Sounds like he was acting like a moron and got smacked around for it.

It seems to me that this person thought it was his God given right to free electricity. Fortunately he was corrected the hard way. We can draw some conclusions about free charging stations. If for example you pull into Kohl’s department store, and then recharge your car. But instead of doing your shopping at Kohl’s, you walk across the street to the Target. Now Kohl’s installed these charging stations at significant cost to attract customers. How long do you think Kohl’s would continue to offer free charging if you did this all the time?

jeffand said:

It seems to me that this person thought it was his God given right to free electricity. Fortunately he was corrected the hard way. We can draw some conclusions about free charging stations. If for example you pull into Kohl’s department store, and then recharge your car. But instead of doing your shopping at Kohl’s, you walk across the street to the Target. Now Kohl’s installed these charging stations at significant cost to attract customers. How long do you think Kohl’s would continue to offer free charging if you did this all the time?

Click to expand...

Not long.

The problematic thing here is that a significant number of people are oblivious to unwritten social contracts. This Kohls example is perfect. You use their charger, you shop there. Not really complicated.

I think with all the information it seems like this guy got snagged for his attitude more than what he was doing.

But this still brings up an interesting discussion for EV owners.

If I went to a public tennis court and plugged in a radio that would be OK, right? I think there is an assumption in public places that services are available for rasonable use. I do think that if public venues are concerned about how much of their electricity is being used or for what purpose then they would have to start locking down the boxes or posting clear use signage.

The example of Kohls or any other store parking lot is different. I don't see an implied "social contract", especially if the lot is clearly shared already. These charging stations are an advertisement. And a fairly cheap one. It says "look at how forward thinking and progressive our store is!" It can also be seen as an ad for how a store values it's customers. But I don't believe any business is naive enough to think that some people will use those stations for the electricity alone. It's just not that big of a deal until EVs cross a tipping point. And that day is still a long way off.

Hope they nail every kid charging a cell phone or laptop too...

paw160 said:

But this still brings up an interesting discussion for EV owners.

If I went to a public tennis court and plugged in a radio that would be OK, right? I think there is an assumption in public places that services are available for rasonable use. I do think that if public venues are concerned about how much of their electricity is being used or for what purpose then they would have to start locking down the boxes or posting clear use signage.

Click to expand...

It is an interesting discussion. If there's an outlet that's available for public use then I wouldn't see much harm in plugging in your car. It would be no different than plugging in a laptop or a radio. The car still doesn't use very much power.

It would be completely acceptable IMO if you are at a public park and plug in at the picnic shelter than you reserved and paid for. For example, most parks in Minneapolis with shelters & grilles can be rented by residents for around $75 for a half day. Doing so ensures that the picnic shelter will be free for you & that it will have been cleaned by Mpls Parks staff shortly before your arrival. With that you're allowed to use the electricity at the park. When I graduated high school we had my grad party at a local park and hooked up a laptop & speakers for dancing along with lights and some electrical cooking appliances for the food. We had no qualms about doing this because we paid to reserve the park. If we had an EV we could also have plugged it in.

However, none of us would want to give EV owners a bad reputation and that must always be considered. EVs haven't reached their tipping point yet which makes every action of more importance because it has the potential to have a big impact, either positively or negatively.

hybridbear said:

paw160 said:

But this still brings up an interesting discussion for EV owners.

If I went to a public tennis court and plugged in a radio that would be OK, right? I think there is an assumption in public places that services are available for rasonable use. I do think that if public venues are concerned about how much of their electricity is being used or for what purpose then they would have to start locking down the boxes or posting clear use signage.

Click to expand...

It is an interesting discussion. If there's an outlet that's available for public use then I wouldn't see much harm in plugging in your car. It would be no different than plugging in a laptop or a radio. The car still doesn't use very much power.

It would be completely acceptable IMO if you are at a public park and plug in at the picnic shelter than you reserved and paid for. For example, most parks in Minneapolis with shelters & grilles can be rented by residents for around $75 for a half day. Doing so ensures that the picnic shelter will be free for you & that it will have been cleaned by Mpls Parks staff shortly before your arrival. With that you're allowed to use the electricity at the park. When I graduated high school we had my grad party at a local park and hooked up a laptop & speakers for dancing along with lights and some electrical cooking appliances for the food. We had no qualms about doing this because we paid to reserve the park. If we had an EV we could also have plugged it in.

However, none of us would want to give EV owners a bad reputation and that must always be considered. EVs haven't reached their tipping point yet which makes every action of more importance because it has the potential to have a big impact, either positively or negatively.

Click to expand...

There is an entire subculture developing that is very Anti-Technology. They have various reasons. Some is the rich vs poor conversation. Some of it is tech companies are ruining the world. Electric cars fall into this category of "somebody with extra money buying something they probably don't need." I don't think it's a huge trend yet, but in California, it's starting to grow as many areas have a huge breakdown of wealth. And there have been a few Teslas damaged just because they were Tesla's.

My car was spit on once I imagine just because it's an electric. Another time somebody pulled out the charging cord and being I was only in the store for like 20 minutes and came out and nobody else was around charging, who knows. I just know there are becoming certain places you try to blend in and not stir trouble with those who wished technology would disappear.