ST Wheels.... Lowering springs?

So yesterday I put a gorgeous set of the base model Focus ST 18" wheels on. I went cheap right now and got a set of used tires that were 225/40R18. They're a little thin and leave a ton of wheel gap. Pictures attached. Will be putting a Focus ST wing on in the next few months as well I hope... With wing risers I 3D printed out of ABS plastic....

I have been thinking about lowering the car to get rid of some of the wheel gap. Normal Focus ST lowering springs are a no go... at least for the rear because of the estimated 450lbs or so of extra weight (subtracting gas tank, gas, and spare tire from 600lbs). I was thinking about trying a set of the OEM Focus ST rear springs to see how much it drops the car. If it drops is less then 1.5" I'd be ecstatic.

Question - Will I be able to get it aligned to fix the rear camber problem from it being lower?

Front springs will likely have to be Focus ST lowering springs. There is less weight in the front then a standard ST or even any ICE focus so I'll have to get the springs that are designed to lower the ST the most.

I can get a set of custom springs made for about $550 but thats a pretty penny for springs! A set of Focus ST lowering springs is around $200 and I have a pair of OEM ST springs that will be free.

Last question - I'm assuming any 2014 Focus springs will fit this car. I don't know that for a fact though. I'm just hoping the actual spring specs are different with the same fitting spring.

Those wheels look really good on your car. Have you compared the weight of the 18" wheels with the OEM 17" wheels? I'm wondering whether there will be any impact in range with the change of wheels (positive or negative).

Now to get rid of the ELECTRIC badge on the rear hatch........

Keith

Since the FFE is heavier the spring rates will be higher than the regular Focus, even the sway bars may be thicker, so don't assume that 'upgraded' Focus parts will match well with the FFE.

My preference would be to find tires that have the same outside diameter as the stock ones and don't change the suspension.

Smaller overall tires will lower your top speed and might even decrease your range due to higher motor speed.

Looking at some the suspension parts list for the FFE. It seems the major difference in the front suspension is the stabilizer bar. This may be due to the front axel weight between the gas version is similar to the electric version. It is the rear suspension parts that are significantly different. This is because of the extra battery weight and room occupied by the battery, and mounting frame.

campfamily said:

Those wheels look really good on your car. Have you compared the weight of the 18" wheels with the OEM 17" wheels? I'm wondering whether there will be any impact in range with the change of wheels (positive or negative).

Now to get rid of the ELECTRIC badge on the rear hatch........

Keith

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I like the Electric badge! The weight seemed to be about the same. I haven't done any scientific analysis...BUT it seems my range is *slightly* worse. I get to work each day with 60-70% remaining with NO heat. I still get to work with 60-65%. I was at 62% when I got there yesterday and 55% today but I ran the heater most of the way today.

FFEFTW said:

Since the FFE is heavier the spring rates will be higher than the regular Focus, even the sway bars may be thicker, so don't assume that 'upgraded' Focus parts will match well with the FFE.

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FFEFTW, I understand that - I'm not expecting it to "upgrade", I'm expecting the ST springs to sit lower because they are not designed for the extra weight. If they sit too low it will become dangerous possibly and I won't leave them on. Hoping they sit about 1" lower and I can get an alignment to fix the camber.

michael said:

My preference would be to find tires that have the same outside diameter as the stock ones and don't change the suspension.

Smaller overall tires will lower your top speed and might even decrease your range due to higher motor speed.

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225/45R18 would be the same as stock FFE 225/50R17. 1mm larger actually. Mine are 20mm shorter, or just 0.4" per side. Thats just a little more then the tread on the tire. That amount of difference is negligible in my opinion. I have 225/40R18. As I stated above, range is really about the same with maybe a *SLIGHT* decrease. Thats likely mostly due to the much sticker tires.

Personally I wanted 225/45R18 but I bought used tires since these are going to go back off at first snow. I'll probably buy a set of new tires in the slightly larger size in the spring. Got these used and in good shape for a steal though.

jeffand said:

Looking at some the suspension parts list for the FFE. It seems the major difference in the front suspension is the stabilizer bar. This may be due to the front axel weight between the gas version is similar to the electric version. It is the rear suspension parts that are significantly different. This is because of the extra battery weight and room occupied by the battery, and mounting frame.

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I'm just curious if the physical rear spring from the ST will fit in the Electric. If not I can have custom springs made but thats expensive. Doesn't even mean the stock ST springs would work. It may lower the car too much.

Did have acceleration gains? Do the tires grip better?

No gains in acceleration. Better grip. Less wheel spin chance when turning and getting on the pedal.

I have gloss black Focus ST wheels on my Electric; they're wrapped in 235/40-18 Pirelli P6s, which is the stock size for the Focus ST (but smaller in diameter than the stock Focus Electric tires).

Haven't really noticed a difference in range, as the Pirellis are LRR tires; I still average 250 wH/mile. It seems marginally more sure-footed, but the car is still severely traction limited due to its odd weight distribution. Tires still screech under moderate braking and spin easily when turning onto a street from a standstill.

Sweet! Now if I can convince my friend with an ST that he needs aftermarket rims

I believe I saw a post on this forum stating the ST wheels are heavier and the OEM ST wheel and tire combo are heavier than the FFE wheel and tire combo. This person also noted a decrease in range with the sticky ST OEM tire and wheel over stock FFE.

At to the suspension... Having setup the suspension for a few FWD cars for autocross and race...

This is what I think Ford did when designing the suspension:
With the springs, sway bars bars and shocks designed to maximize the grip for each tire the FFE is tail happy. (The car wants to spin too easily) They solved this by putting a very stiff sway bar on the front. The simplified effect is the front end losees grip and the rear end gains grip in a turn. This allows inexperienced drivers the best chance of not killing themselves in a rear weight bias car.

The range decrease is very small. The Eagle F1 Summer OEM tires that come with the ST are insanely grippy and also 235 wide instead of 225.

I understand the FFE suspension design. I find that my FFE is more likely to slide all 4 wheels and oversteer slightly before understeer on fast, hard corners. I found this quite odd considering the setup. Of course like any car it will understeer under the correct conditions but I'm surprised how it wants to step the rear end out.

I figured out that if I want springs done right I need to get them custom made. Going to have camber issues no matter what...

Bummer on the springs. I believe the 2015 have stability control. Does the 2014 have it and/or did you disable it? Did the rear step out with stock tires or grippy tires?

All cars in the US Model Year 2012 and newer must have Electronic Stability Control. So yes, all FFE's have ESC.

You can in theory disable it by pulling the ABS fuse. Some cars go into a "limp home" mode when you do this though. I have not tried it so I cannot say it would work for the FFE.

When I do slide, ESC does kick in limiting the slide quite a bit. Its fairly frustrating because if you try to correct the slide you jolt the other way. I've found the best way to keep the slide happening the longest you must not correct and let the car correct for you. It also is the most smooth correction.

breeves002 said:

You can in theory disable it by pulling the ABS fuse. Some cars go into a "limp home" mode when you do this though. I have not tried it so I cannot say it would work for the FFE.

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Its far easier to disable it by using the left menu on the dash. Of course you have to turn it off each time you start the car.

Go into settings and turn off traction control:


I've turned it off in winter on a snowy day to see how much it "leaves on": basically nothing. With it off on ice/snow/etc. you slide all over the place (especially with the energy tires).

Really, that turns off ESC too? Odd. I knew that existed and have used it before but that really surprises me that it disables ESC. Almost NO cars today have ESC defeat...especially Fords.

The Focus ST has two modes of defeat. A "Sport" mode which disables traction control and dials back ESC, and a "full off" mode which completely turns off ESC. It only leaves the torque vectoring on. The Taurus models including SHO (2013+) have the menu in the instrument cluster for disabling traction control like our cars but this does not disable ESC. To disable ESC you must have a SHO with the Performance Package. This allows you to disable ESC by holding the button on the center console for 10 seconds.

All GM products let you disable ESC, but it turns on when you get above a certain speed. My 2008 Mercury Sable (Taurus) has ESC as an option but allows you to completely defeat it below 45mph with one button press. Once you get over 45mph both traction control and ESC turn back on. I bet it is similar in the Focus. I'll read in the owners manual and see if it says anything.

EDIT: Straight from the owners manual:

"USING ADVANCETRAC®
The system automatically activates when you start your engine.
The AdvanceTrac® system cannot be completely turned off, but the
electronic stability control portion of the system is disabled when the
transmission is in position R. You can turn off the traction control
portion of the system independently. See the Traction Control chapter."

It may disable is partially, but there's no way it turns it completely off. I'll have to do some testing in the snow WHEN it finally snows here! It is possible that physics is too much for the perfectly weight balanced Focus Electric and all that weight in the back makes it difficult to stop a spin....especially on the crap OEM tires.

Are the OEM tires as scary to me in rain as they are to everyone else? If I have to hit the brakes moderately hard I slide... They have 8/32" left too! Are they THAT bad in snow too??

breeves002 said:

Are the OEM tires as scary to me in rain as they are to everyone else? If I have to hit the brakes moderately hard I slide... They have 8/32" left too! Are they THAT bad in snow too??

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yes/no: I've got used to how the FFE drives in all conditions (having driven it through the past two horrible Michigan winters). The traction control really does make up for the slippery tires (note that to have low-rolling-resistance they are very hard..probably never have to replace them! LOL).

Interesting that it doesn't completely turn off ESC. It is possible that ice was just too much for it when I was playing around with traction control off...

I've only ever got the FFE stuck once when I bottomed it out on a snowpile. I managed to free it with plenty of rocking.

I have a coworker with an FFE and he found out that they float and work pretty good going through about 30" of water

Pictures and video I can picture an FFE going into a lake and electrocuting all the fish.

jmueller065 said:

breeves002 said:

I have a coworker with an FFE and he found out that they float and work pretty good going through about 30" of water

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yeah unfortunately no pictures and no video.

He was kind of busy at the time to snap a few pics. I did write about it on the blog though:
https://spareelectrons.wordpress.com/2014/08/12/noah-has-nothing-on-us/

Hmm I wrote 18" in the post. I guess you'd have to measure how high the rear-view mirror sits...

Holy cow 30" of water thats scary. I can see the car being able to be submerged pretty deeply briefly. You'll have a problem when it gets into the interior to those electronics. . .

So if you know how ESC works I'm sorry if I'm insulting your intelligence, but if you don't, I'm just going to briefly explain it.

So you have 4 wheel speed sensors for ABS/Traction control. You have a yaw sensor (accelerometer) and a SAS or steering angle sensor. Basically ESC looks at the Yaw of the car versus the steering angle. If it things the car is moving in a different direction then the steering wheel is angled it will specifically brake wheels to get it to move in the direction that it needs to go. It can brake 1, 2, 3, or all 4 wheel and in any order based on where you're moving.

Like ABS, if all 4 wheels are locked up it really can't do anything. ABS doesn't know that you're moving... although I figure in a modern car they can figure it out based on the yaw sensor.

On an unrelated note... when it gets really cold and wet (below freezing), does anyone else have a problem with the charge door getting stuck closed or not springing open properly? I've had to pry it open with a key a few times now!