Olagon
Posts: 168
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:57 pm

Any advice. Lost 30%+ range and Dealer said no dice

Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:10 pm

2014. 60K miles. Garaged in cool valley in Hawaii. Well cared for. But now with 30% range loss I can't make trips to the west side of Oahu anymore. Dealer said no warranty for range reductions but wants to charge me $500 to balance my pack. How did guys here get battery swaps?
- 2014 FFE Tuxedo with leather charged via home PV

Previous eco cars
- 2012 Mitsubishi iMiev
- 1995 Black Benz E300D running biodiesel
- 1995 Green Benz E300D running biodiesel

Next eco car
- Seven seat SUV all electric < $50,000

scottt
Site Moderator
Posts: 334
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:00 am

Re: Any advice. Lost 30%+ range and Dealer said no dice

Tue Mar 03, 2020 5:03 am

Call Ford directly. Worst they can say is no.
2015 Magnetic FFE (aka Magneto) - Retired
2017 Kona Blue FFE (aka King Kona) - Current

triangles
Posts: 1096
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:40 am
Location: Toledo, Ohio

Re: Any advice. Lost 30%+ range and Dealer said no dice

Fri Mar 06, 2020 4:19 am

Battery has to fail for a warranty replacement. I want to say it's been about a year now that the warranty replacement gets you a refurbished battery not a new one. The warranty is clear that there is no degradation guarantee.
2014 Blue Candy FFE
http://www.fuelly.com/car/ford/focus/2014/triangles/303811 (since this forum doesn't allow BBcode in sigs)

Heima
Posts: 71
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:46 pm

Re: Any advice. Lost 30%+ range and Dealer said no dice

Sat Mar 07, 2020 7:50 pm

$500 to balance a pack? What are they going to do, take them out of the car and put on scale? "Hey, the lower is heavier than the upper!"

You can balance the pack yourself, discharge it to under 10% and slow charge it to 100% and leave it on the charger for a couple of days.

However, the rebalance might not solve your problem.

A sly person might find a way to cause an internal coolant leak in their pack. Of course that would cause immediate shut down of the car and it would not be drivable. "What, no, I didn't say anything."

I am sorry that you are having the problem with the car and wishing you the best of luck.

electrons
Posts: 115
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2016 4:22 pm

Re: Any advice. Lost 30%+ range and Dealer said no dice

Tue Apr 07, 2020 3:40 pm

Heima wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 7:50 pm
$500 to balance a pack? What are they going to do, take them out of the car and put on scale? "Hey, the lower is heavier than the upper!"
I've heard of 'balancing' before.
https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/art ... _balancing
And it has something to do with keeping cells of similar voltages in the same bank (group), so they are moved around a bit. Interesting tech I don't know much about.

Heima
Posts: 71
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:46 pm

Re: Any advice. Lost 30%+ range and Dealer said no dice

Tue Apr 07, 2020 7:12 pm

Sorry, I guess the humor doesn't come through. I was mocking the stealership of charging $500 to do what the car already does. I also suspect that the stealership actually wasn't going to do anything for $500, that they were just BSing. The only way I know of to manually balance a pack, (and the fact the stealership used the singular pack, and not the plural packs for this cough, cough service) is to open a pack and hook up a charger to each cell, charging each to their maximum value. I don't think a dealer is going to do that.

In Forscan, there is a parameter to see what balancing state the vehicle is in. I have not watched it much, but of the eight different states, the only two I have seen are "denied by vehicle" and "initializing".

electrons
Posts: 115
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2016 4:22 pm

Re: Any advice. Lost 30%+ range and Dealer said no dice

Wed Apr 08, 2020 11:52 am

Heima, sorry I missed the humor. I'm normally OK at that.
As for the dealership balancing a pack, my impression is they never are allowed (by Ford) to open a pack. They can and do ship them off to a special Ford lab, possibly run by the original part maker (maybe LG Chem). Noticed that from a TSB recently.

electrons
Posts: 115
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2016 4:22 pm

Re: Any advice. Lost 30%+ range and Dealer said no dice

Thu Apr 09, 2020 4:16 am

When the dealership says "balance the packs for $500", maybe it could help a lot. Assuming they move individual cells around inside there until each bank (5 banks with 86 cells each) has about the same voltage and discharge characteristics. Of course, for a big range degradation like this situation, you would think some cells in there need replacing too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Focus_Electric

triangles
Posts: 1096
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:40 am
Location: Toledo, Ohio

Re: Any advice. Lost 30%+ range and Dealer said no dice

Fri Apr 10, 2020 7:06 am

You got that a little backwards. it's 86 groups of 5 cells each.
2014 Blue Candy FFE
http://www.fuelly.com/car/ford/focus/2014/triangles/303811 (since this forum doesn't allow BBcode in sigs)

electrons
Posts: 115
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2016 4:22 pm

Re: Any advice. Lost 30%+ range and Dealer said no dice

Fri Apr 10, 2020 11:43 am

triangles wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 7:06 am
You got that a little backwards. it's 86 groups of 5 cells each.
Are they grouped across parallel lines? I define a "group" as one set in series, 86 cells in series..... Each cell is 3.7v, and 86 of them wired in series gets us 318v total. Then there are 5 groups of those in parallel to support overall current (amp) flow & power needs (power is volts x amps).

Seems like in balancing, you want to get each parallel path (5) to have same voltage. Then, the sum of cell volts in each series set must be the same as the other 4.

Are you saying there are 86 modules, each with 5 cells, wired in stackable series? That would be the other way to define a "group" and would make sense if they package them that way. Have you opened one of these up?

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