cecil-t
Posts: 37
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Location: PA

Re: Adapt Ford's 120v charge cable to 240v

Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:53 pm

Interesting, but above my head. There's only one way to really be sure though - plug it in to 240v :)

I concur on the date format, though the 133rd day of 2017 is a Saturday which is a little weird.

In googling around a bit, it seems the last character of the part number is the only one that changes, I've also come across FM58-10B706-AG on eBay.

I'm going to speculate that that last character increments every year. In fact, it almost looks like the year code on the 10th digit of the VIN. But in both of our examples the part number would be one year ahead of the car's year: F = 2015, J = 2018.

I'm not going to pull mine apart but I am curious if there really is a difference. Again my original thought was that they sell this thing in Europe, and it seems highly unlikely the EVSE itself would be any different if they could make one globally and slap a different plug on the end as appropriate.
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2017 Ford Focus Electric
2014 Zero S (motorcycle)

triangles
Posts: 1051
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Location: Toledo, Ohio

Re: Adapt Ford's 120v charge cable to 240v

Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:04 am

cecil-t wrote:I'm going to speculate that that last character increments every year. In fact, it almost looks like the year code on the 10th digit of the VIN. But in both of our examples the part number would be one year ahead of the car's year: F = 2015, J = 2018.
Interesting and makes some sense. However after googling a little it seems more likely a part revision level. http://www.fordification.com/tech/datecodes.htm and http://automotivemileposts.com/ford/for ... mbers.html
cecil-t wrote:Again my original thought was that they sell this thing in Europe, and it seems highly unlikely the EVSE itself would be any different if they could make one globally and slap a different plug on the end as appropriate.
I thought this too but I think it's a little more complex than just slapping a different power plug on the end. The part would have to be dual voltage, work on 50Hz or 60Hz, and have to work with the US standard J1772 plug or the Mennekes plug that they use in Europe. At least initially such a complex product may not have been cost efficient. Especially if there are any significant differences between the way the Mennekes and J1772 plugs work.

I just had a thought on how I can modify this to work on 240V or 120V. Gotta do some probing with a multimeter to make sure I understand how at least parts of this are "wired" and pick my EE friend's brain to make sure I'm not doing something stupid.
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spirilis
Posts: 154
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:53 am
Location: Maryland

Re: Adapt Ford's 120v charge cable to 240v

Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:40 am

triangles wrote:
cecil-t wrote:I'm going to speculate that that last character increments every year. In fact, it almost looks like the year code on the 10th digit of the VIN. But in both of our examples the part number would be one year ahead of the car's year: F = 2015, J = 2018.
Interesting and makes some sense. However after googling a little it seems more likely a part revision level. http://www.fordification.com/tech/datecodes.htm and http://automotivemileposts.com/ford/for ... mbers.html
cecil-t wrote:Again my original thought was that they sell this thing in Europe, and it seems highly unlikely the EVSE itself would be any different if they could make one globally and slap a different plug on the end as appropriate.
I thought this too but I think it's a little more complex than just slapping a different power plug on the end. The part would have to be dual voltage, work on 50Hz or 60Hz, and have to work with the US standard J1772 plug or the Mennekes plug that they use in Europe. At least initially such a complex product may not have been cost efficient. Especially if there are any significant differences between the way the Mennekes and J1772 plugs work.

I just had a thought on how I can modify this to work on 240V or 120V. Gotta do some probing with a multimeter to make sure I understand how at least parts of this are "wired" and pick my EE friend's brain to make sure I'm not doing something stupid.
My understanding is it's not. The LV DC power supply for the EVSE should work fine on 50Hz or 60Hz (it all gets rectified to DC), same as the vehicle's BCCM charger in fact, and the Mennekes plug is compatible with J1772 type 1 (in fact there are passive adapter cables out there) electrically, the difference is the Mennekes plug can optionally receive 3-phase AC for vehicles with chargers that can work with it, but works fine with single-phase power.

Fun fact, the Tesla AC (non-DC supercharger) protocol is also compatible with J1772 type 1 single-phase, thus an adapter like this is basically a dumb adapter passing through wires from one connector to the other: http://shop.quickchargepower.com/JDapte ... scsfapp004

PS: I am envious of the Europeans having 3-phase power everywhere. Wish we had the type 2 connectors on our cars; we wouldn't need DC Fast Charging much.
2017 Ford Focus Electric (Magnetic)
2017 Ford C-Max Energi SE (Kona Blue)

cecil-t
Posts: 37
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 3:16 pm
Location: PA

Re: Adapt Ford's 120v charge cable to 240v

Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:15 am

spirilis wrote:PS: I am envious of the Europeans having 3-phase power everywhere. Wish we had the type 2 connectors on our cars; we wouldn't need DC Fast Charging much.
Agreed. I'd even be happy if 240v were more accessible and the whole concept of "Level 1" 120v charging didn't exist.
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2014 Zero S (motorcycle)

Pearl
Posts: 278
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Location: Northeast Ohio

Re: Adapt Ford's 120v charge cable to 240v

Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:59 am

I don't believe that the inclusion of the 2 22AWG wires are what determines if the EVSE is 240V capable. Those two smaller gauge wires are for the Pilot Signal of the J1772 standard.
triangles wrote:So it looks like there are some 240V capable OEM EVSE's. Unfortunately I am certain mine is not one of them. From what I've gathered from cecil-t and spirilis the differences are as follows:

240V capable:
OEM EVSE part #FM58-10B706-AJ
- Has thermistor in plug. Plug end cord has the following on it (3 COND 16 AWG & 2 COND 22 AWG 600V) The 22 conductors for the thermistor which is probably an added safety feature to detect if the plug overheats.

NOT 240V CAPABLE:
OEM EVSE part #FM58-10B706-AF
- Has no thermistor in the plug (3 COND 16 AWG AWG 600V) ie. no wires for a thermistor
2013 Focus Electric
2013 C-Max Energi
2013 Escape

spirilis
Posts: 154
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:53 am
Location: Maryland

Re: Adapt Ford's 120v charge cable to 240v

Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:00 pm

Are there L1 EVSE's out there with no pilot/proximity signal? I seem to recall the J1772 standard allows for some basic L1 charging with no pilot signal but I don't recall the details... I think at least the proximity signal needs to be present?
2017 Ford Focus Electric (Magnetic)
2017 Ford C-Max Energi SE (Kona Blue)

cecil-t
Posts: 37
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 3:16 pm
Location: PA

Re: Adapt Ford's 120v charge cable to 240v

Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:16 pm

Pearl wrote:I don't believe that the inclusion of the 2 22AWG wires are what determines if the EVSE is 240V capable. Those two smaller gauge wires are for the Pilot Signal of the J1772 standard

We're talking about different ends of the EVSE. I'm talking about the input side from the 5-15 plug. Spirilis is saying those 22 gauge wires are for the thermistor. The J1772 side is a 5-wire cable, not 4.


I don't know what components make it or make it not accept a 240v input, the specifics of the electrical components are above my head. I just plugged it in and it worked, just charged up on it now in fact on 240v. My suggestion is to just plug it in and roll the $250 dice. If your unit fries just go buy a cheap dual-voltage unit like zencar - either way you'll end up with twice the charging speed.
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2017 Ford Focus Electric
2014 Zero S (motorcycle)

spirilis
Posts: 154
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:53 am
Location: Maryland

Re: Adapt Ford's 120v charge cable to 240v

Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:28 pm

I think a 150V varistor would preclude its use at 240V as it should short circuit the input, tripping the breaker and overheating the input wiring.

Unless it blows "open" instead, rendering itself useless right away while the remainder of the EVSE functions OK. That would be a technical design fault since its safety function is useless but who knows. I should pop open the case on my CMax EVSE at some point and snoop.
2017 Ford Focus Electric (Magnetic)
2017 Ford C-Max Energi SE (Kona Blue)

cecil-t
Posts: 37
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 3:16 pm
Location: PA

Re: Adapt Ford's 120v charge cable to 240v

Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:56 pm

I can't imagine intentionally causing a short circuit is a safety feature? There must be something else to that mechanism we're not understanding.
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2017 Ford Focus Electric
2014 Zero S (motorcycle)

spirilis
Posts: 154
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:53 am
Location: Maryland

Re: Adapt Ford's 120v charge cable to 240v

Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:41 pm

cecil-t wrote:I can't imagine intentionally causing a short circuit is a safety feature? There must be something else to that mechanism we're not understanding.
An inline fuse maybe? It's a typical protection method for lower voltage DC stuff anyhow.
2017 Ford Focus Electric (Magnetic)
2017 Ford C-Max Energi SE (Kona Blue)

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