Error with computing Wh/mi and energy used

For a while I have been convinced there are errors in the displaying of Wh/mi and Energy consumed shown under Trip1/2
As a background I typically run 300wh/mi on my regular trips (using Trip1 and resetting it every trip), BUT then I see Trip2
(1000 miles) with an average of 250wh/mi which DOES NOT make sense and obviously underreports the energy used.

Well today I narrowed down the discrepancy to the fact that if you leave the car "on" (to leave accessories running) WHILE YOU CHARGE then the energy used actually goes backwards! And the car's Trip clock keeps clicking. Obviously the car is not moving and the green "car go" is off as I am charging.

To illustrate this I was going to attach 2 photos of Trip Display but I do not see where you do this.
ANYHOW:
I start with this on Trip1 display:
19.4KWH of usage
69.8 mi
279wh/mi
02:59:50 on trip clock
AND I plug my car in.

I come back a while later to check the charging and press on the Trip 1 display again to see:

18.9KWH of energy used !
69.8 mile (not having moved the car obviously)
271wh/mi
03:05:52

Anyone noticed that...seems like I could technically show a 0 electrical usage after 1000 miles if the car stays "on" during charging.

fbitz777 said:

For a while I have been convinced there are errors in the displaying of Wh/mi and Energy consumed shown under Trip1/2
...
seems like I could technically show a 0 electrical usage after 1000 miles if the car stays "on" during charging.

Click to expand...

The trip meter measures energy lost or gained while the car is turned on.

So, yes, if you drive along using 10 kWh of energy, then park (without turning the car off), and charge back the 10 kWh, the trip meter would say 0 kWh used. The same thing would happen if you drove up a hill using 10 kWh and then rolled back down regenerating the 10 kWh (assuming you could regenerate it all).

I don't see an issue. You're suggesting the trip meter should somehow only account for energy used while the car is physically moving?

I have seen another post where a renter is using Trip meter to see how much he owes (KWH) the landlord so obviously that
can be inaccurate and lead to underreporting.

Being "ON" on this car has confused from the start. I know for sure that my mini does not run the trip clock (and associated trip averages) until the car's engine is running. And certainly not when I just want the accessories to stay on.

This would be similar to showing zero gallons used on ICE car just because you filled it up with the car on.


Last week my issue was that I could not unlock my car with my iPhone because I had used the start feature and my keys were in the car.

fbitz777 said:

And certainly not when I just want the accessories to stay on.

Click to expand...

Just curious, why do you want the accessories to stay on while you charge the car?

fbitz777 said:

I have seen another post where a renter is using Trip meter to see how much he owes (KWH) the landlord so obviously that
can be inaccurate and lead to underreporting.

Click to expand...

That's true, but he was only using the trip meter as an estimate for what he owed and, unless he does an inordinate amount of regen, or leaves the car turned on while he charges it, the trip meter should provide a decent estimate of how much energy he is using from his landlord's socket.

unplugged said:

fbitz777 said:

And certainly not when I just want the accessories to stay on.

Click to expand...

Just curious, why do you want the accessories to stay on while you charge the car?

Click to expand...

I want to charge my iPhone via USB! probably not the most efficient way to do it I guess but I have not looked if there is another plug that is always on.

fbitz777 said:

unplugged said:

fbitz777 said:

And certainly not when I just want the accessories to stay on.

Click to expand...

Just curious, why do you want the accessories to stay on while you charge the car?

Click to expand...

I want to charge my iPhone via USB! probably not the most efficient way to do it I guess but I have not looked if there is another plug that is always on.

Click to expand...

So you want to leave your phone in the car when you're not in the car and have the phone charge?

Our Fusion Hybrid also counts minutes on the trip meter if the car is "on" but not "ready to drive". It does not count time on the trip meter if the car is in "accessories". And since we know that the trip meter counts kWh backward if on while plugged in we won't charge while plugged in so that we can have an accurate record of electricity use.

fbitz777 said:

unplugged said:

fbitz777 said:

And certainly not when I just want the accessories to stay on.

Click to expand...

Just curious, why do you want the accessories to stay on while you charge the car?

Click to expand...

I want to charge my iPhone via USB! probably not the most efficient way to do it I guess but I have not looked if there is another plug that is always on.

Click to expand...

You do realize that the regular cigarette lighters stay "on" when the car is off? You can just plug the USB into a USB cigarette lighter charger and you won't have to leave the car on. (They make some really nice low-profile chargers: http://smile.amazon.com/Certified-Apple-ACEPower%C2%AE-Cigarette-Lightning/dp/B00H26JR4A/ref=sr_1_4?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1407712836&sr=1-4&keywords=usb+car+charger

yes I realized today that the cigarette lighter exist on this car!

BTW
if you do a REMOTE START the USB will turn on. AND the trip meter/ KWH meter does not go backwards (assuming you are charging)

fbitz777 said:

if you do a REMOTE START the USB will turn on. AND the trip meter/ KWH meter does not go backwards (assuming you are charging)

Click to expand...

When remote started the car will only "run" for 15-20 minutes before automatically turning off.

I know but it sure acts the same as when I have the car is "on" for that amount of time except the trip kwh used are computed right.

This is slightly different than what the OP started the discussion about, but has anyone else noticed that the Wh/mi in the trip graph on MFM doesn't match the Wh/mi shown by the car when turning it off? I need to take some pics to document this, but right now I'm too busy dealing with our accident and we aren't driving the FFE until it is repaired so I don't have data.

unplugged said:

You do realize that the regular cigarette lighters stay "on" when the car is off? You can just plug the USB into a USB cigarette lighter charger and you won't have to leave the car on.

Click to expand...

Unfortunately, the 12V sockets in the FFE (there are two, front and rear) power-down shortly after the car is turned off (just like the USB power). At least this is the case with my 2013 model.

Hybridbear, don't knock yourself out comparing the two things - in car and MFM. There are just too many discrepancies between the two systems. The MFM website is more for entertainment than serious data. MFM seems to miss a lot of things. You can use it for general trends - like the monthly average how many wh/mi you use. But don't try to pin down any single date or event - you'll drive yourself nuts.

WattsUp said:

Unfortunately, the 12V sockets in the FFE (there are two, front and rear) power-down shortly after the car is turned off (just like the USB power). At least this is the case with my 2013 model.

Click to expand...

Interesting. I always assumed that it powered, but I did a check just now and found that it stays on for about half an hour after closing the door. It comes back on soon as the door is opened.

Thus, the answer to the age old question of whether the light stays on when the refrigerator door is closed: the power turns off after the door is closed but only if you check back a half hour later.

unplugged said:

WattsUp said:

Unfortunately, the 12V sockets in the FFE (there are two, front and rear) power-down shortly after the car is turned off (just like the USB power). At least this is the case with my 2013 model.

Click to expand...

Interesting. I always assumed that it powered, but I did a check just now and found that it stays on for about half an hour after closing the door. It comes back on soon as the door is opened.

Click to expand...

Did you leave the ignition in "accessory mode"? That sounds like the time-out in accessory mode, its about 30 minutes.

If you leave the ignition off, the 12V ports power down pretty much right after you close the door. So, no good for leaving something charging in your car while you're away.

I think Unplugged's right. I bought a voltage monitor that plugs into the cigarette lighter thinking that I could monitor the 12V battery by peeking in the window and not having to pop the hood. No such luck - it times out.

WattsUp said:

If you leave the ignition off, the 12V ports power down pretty much right after you close the door. So, no good for leaving something charging in your car while you're away.

Click to expand...

I have a red light on one of the in-car usb chargers that stay on when powered up. The car was just sitting in the garage turned completely off when I read your response, so I went out to check. Sure enough, the light was off. So I opened the rear door and the light came back on. When I closed it, it stayed on. So I went out every five or ten minutes to check on when it went out (without opening the door, of course). It stayed on for about a half hour.

unplugged said:

WattsUp said:

If you leave the ignition off, the 12V ports power down pretty much right after you close the door. So, no good for leaving something charging in your car while you're away.

Click to expand...

I have a red light on one of the in-car usb chargers that stay on when powered up. The car was just sitting in the garage turned completely off when I read your response, so I went out to check. Sure enough, the light was off. So I opened the rear door and the light came back on. When I closed it, it stayed on. So I went out every five or ten minutes to check on when it went out (without opening the door, of course). It stayed on for about a half hour.

Click to expand...

Last time I checked this, I did it with the USB port and saw my iPhone stop charging shortly after I closed the door (with ignition off).

But.. I don't think I've tried this test since having all the updates done around the New Year. The quick power-down is the behavior I remember... but perhaps it was changed with the updates?

I do know that sitting in the car, with the ignition off but radio on, the car will eventually power-down (radio goes off) after about 30 minutes.

I've seen it go off pretty soon after the car is turned off. However, now that I'm stuck in an ICE 2013 Focus while my High Voltage Battery gets replaced, I've noticed that the ICE version is similar.

I've purchased one of those lithium battery packs that charge from USB and then charge off of the car's USB port. They aren't very expensive. Anyway, just plug the battery pack into the USB port and your phone or whatever into the battery pack. Battery pack will charge when the car is running and will always be available when you want to charge your phone.

As for the 12V adapter port, no easy fix there, but if you don't mind keeping a small lead acid battery in your console, you could pretty much do the same thing. You might need some sort of charge controller, but it could be done....or rewire your 12V socket to be on all the time...doable, but I would probably stay away from that while the car is still under warranty.