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Re: 2014 FFE w/ 125,000 miles. SSN.

Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 8:49 pm
by triangles
If you're anywhere near Ohio I'd take at least the battery. Been looking for a salvage one for the right price. Problem is there are none around here let alone would they be at the right price.

Re: 2014 FFE w/ 125,000 miles. SSN.

Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 12:01 pm
by AnnePatt
We just donated our 2013 Ford Focus Electric to Melwood. We decided not to replace the $13,031.21 battery pack because we would have to pay for it. https://www.melwood.org/vehicle-donation 5606 Dower House Road, Upper Marlboro, MD 20772 Toll free number: 1-877-Melwood (1-877-635-9663).

What Happened: On September 21, 2020, at 7:05 am, my 2013 Ford Focus Electric, “Filly,” gave me the “Stop Safely Now” warning after I parked between a Chevrolet Dealership and a Mazda/Volkswagen Dealership to charge at a ChargePoint charging station. My mileage was 105,288.0. I am grateful to God that it decided to do this after I was safely parked. During my trip I did get a “Service Vehicle” tool icon (picture of a wrench) and I continued driving until I reached my destination. I couldn’t charge the car because the ChargePoint charging station was out of service. When I pushed the start button the Stop Safely Now message appeared on the display and the “Drive” icon did not appear.

Before my husband got on the road for the 29 mile, 45-minute drive to me, he asked me to ask the dealership service departments (Chevrolet and Mazda/Volkswagen) near where I parked to disconnect the 12-volt battery, let it sit for a half an hour, to reset the codes, and then reconnect the 12-volt battery. Both service departments would not touch the car because it is all electric.

I called a local mechanic and asked him if he could come over and disconnect the 12-volt battery, and he came over. My husband asked him to bring his scan tool.

The mechanic disconnected the 12-volt battery and his scan tool revealed a problem with the “drivetrain.” The car would not show the drive icon, even after reconnecting the 12-volt battery. My husband asked the mechanic to disconnect it again to let it sit for 30 minutes before reconnecting so he did and he left his tool with us so my husband could reconnect it after we waiting a while. Still it did not show the drive icon.

So, we called AAA and had it towed to our Annapolis Ford dealership. We returned the tool to the mechanic.

Ford said that the pump which pumps the liquid coolant through the battery pack leaked and damaged the battery. The solution was to replace the battery pack.
The replacement battery pack costs $13,031.21. Our Service Advisor at the Ford Service Department in Annapolis said he can not install a used battery if I found one from a used vehicle, or from a salvage vehicle. The total cost to replace plus labor would be around $15,000, and the total cost of ownership is $5,362.50. It is really unfortunate especially since we had new tires put on a year ago and the car is in great condition. We really took good care of it.

I called Ford Parts and they gave me the part number for the remanufactured battery pack that costs $13,031.21: CM5Z-10B759-TARM. https://parts.ford.com/shop/en/us/elect ... 12250777-1 The price of the part varies by dealership. The lowest cost was about $11,000, from a Ford dealership near Hampton, VA. We paid $298 for the diagnostic labor charge, asked the service department to put it back together. We donated it to Melwood.

So, my husband and I donated because we could not find someone to repair the damaged battery pack. It is very disappointing because “Filly” got me to and from work for 8 years, 2013-2020, 105,288 miles, and I work 29 miles away I charged it daily especially in the cooler months. At least I am working from home during the pandemic and don’t have to drive daily.

This is what we sent to the Ford Mechanic on “Just Answer.com” on Monday morning, October 12, 2020, at 3:00 am-

Dear Sir,

Our Ford Focus Electric 2013 23 MHz battery cooling pump failed which leaked its coolant into the battery casing causing damage. The car is now undrivable. The only solution Ford offered us is their remanufactured battery at a cost of $13,031.21. This exceeds the worth of the car. The battery pack cost is too high and therefore we have a perfectly good car that we cannot drive. If you have any suggestions for us it would be much appreciated.

JA: How old are the hoses? And have you tested the actual mix of your coolant?

Customer: The car is 2013 and almost 8 years old. The Ford dealership service department told us that the pump failed that pumps the coolant and damaged the battery pack.

JA: Are you fixing your Focus Electric yourself? What have you tried so far?

Customer: We don't have the knowledge to do that and we do not know anyone who can fix/resurrect the battery pack. We had planned to by the new Ford Mach-E, but we are concerned about availability of reasonably priced replacement battery pack.

JA: Anything else you want the Mechanic to know before I connect you?

Customer: Yes, why can't Ford provide a program to reasonably repair battery pack for EVs.

Continued conversation with Ford Mechanic:

Ford Mechanic: Hi Anne I hope you are well. I’m sorry to hear you are having troubles. This is unfortunately the downside to replacement battery pack. The problem you have is it’s likely the battery is damaged to the extent that it cannot be overhauled leaving you with the only option to replace. It’s either replace with a new part as quoted or you could try and source a used part but dealers typically won’t fit them so you would also have to find a garage capable of carrying out the repair.

Anne: Can you recommend a garage that services electric vehicles near me?

Ford Mechanic: Unfortunately, I’m in the U.K. so I won’t be able to assist with a recommendation. I would get a second opinion though as most dealerships won’t in my personal experience repair, they prefer to replace

Re: 2014 FFE w/ 125,000 miles. SSN.

Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:24 pm
by electrons
qflyer, Usually a Ford dealership does have plenty of high-voltage electrical technicians, since Ford has been selling Hybrids for 15 years now. And they just go by Ford diagnostic trees to lead them through stuff anyway. I've had some bugs & written some threads on electrical gremlins in the past couple of years, but my '16 Focus Electric is going strong right now anyway.

AnnePatt, It is true these Focus Electrics will, at some point in the years, leak coolant. I've seen it in Ford Technical Service Bulletins. Out of warranty you have no alternative to just junking the car, unless you want to spend a ton.
Interestingly, the ~120-mile-range Nissan Leaf uses air cooling, so no liquid coolant can contaminate the battery. ( In Maryland, or really anywhere the temperature is usually under 100 degrees F outside, the Nissan Leaf air cooling works very well. Arizona Leafs have had some problems though. ) I'd buy a 2nd generation (the curren gen) Nissan Leaf, mainly because their range is decent and they aren't ugly like the 1st gen models!!

Re: 2014 FFE w/ 125,000 miles. SSN.

Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2020 6:19 pm
by Heima
This is so sad. I am so sorry your car met that horrible fate, Anne. It just doesn't seem fair that cars that are really simple in design, are so difficult to get repaired. It is from mechanics lack of knowledge, or their disinterest to learn and understand evs, that the majority of EV repairs become so problematic.
It also doesn't help that the manufacturers believe that the battery is unrepairable. It is repairable, if not, how would it be possible to have a rebuilt battery pack? Why would there be so many Youtube videos of high voltage battery teardowns? Anyhow, the manufacturers would rather replace the entire battery, than repair the battery, because they believe the mechanics incapable of doing that type of repair, and it does require some special tools.

In your case, the mechanics created a mis-diagnosis because they did not know themselves.
Most likely the vehicle had a DTC that stated an isolation loss in one of the batteries.
The most likely reason for that is coolant leaking in and shorting the electrical path.
But moist air inside of the battery can do the same thing.
The steps to check were probably too overwhelming for the mechanics, so they just made up the coolant pump problem.
A failed coolant pump would not leak coolant into the hv battery.
If a coolant pump fails, the coolant pressure drops, and no or very little coolant flows.
How could that cause a leak?
If the coolant pump could somehow over speed, it might develop enough pressure to rupture a connection within the pack.
But this is unlikely because the vehicle has the ability to run the pump at maximum speed during fast charging a hot pack in high ambient temperature.
If there is a coolant leak in the battery pack, the most likely cause is because someone did a pressure test of the cooling system, not knowing that it must be done at a low pressure.
When there is a coolant leak in the battery pack, there are two drain plugs on the underside of the lower battery that can be removed to check for the presence of coolant sloshing around in the battery pack.

Lets assume that there in fact was a coolant leak in the battery pack. Which ever pack could have been removed, opened, the coolant removed. and the components inspected. If the damage was not severe, the leak could have been traced, repaired and if the high voltage connections were not damaged, the contactors were not damaged, the battery could have been reused.

The above service work would require a mechanic,/tech who is famiilar with high voltage batteries, and if certain parts were necessary, like coolant fittings, it might take a while to source replacements, but if the leak was from something simple, like a hose separating from a cooling plate, the fix would be so easy.

I am sorry that this happened to you and your much beloved car. It is sad that such reliable vehicles have an achilles heel of mechanic ignorance.

Re: 2014 FFE w/ 125,000 miles. SSN.

Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2020 6:25 pm
by Heima
Believe it or not, the modem recall might help. The modem is in the telematics control module, TCM, that fuse 1 is for the TCM as well. It might help.

If you would like, if you can get any DTC/error codes out of the dealer, post them here, and I will take a look in the service manual, to see what it says about them.

Good Luck.

Re: 2014 FFE w/ 125,000 miles. SSN.

Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 8:51 am
by qflyer
Well, after three weeks waiting for a tech to look at the car, I received this text today: “ So we've hit a major roadblock...the hybrid batteries need to be replaced to the tune of $5136.43 as they are leaking coolant. Also know, that this may not be the end of the repair as there is potentially a coolant leak that needs to be addressed unless it comes as a complete unit inside the hybrid batteries.”

I’ve asked for more info, but still awaiting a response. Has anyone successfully repaired a battery with this kind of damage? I’m not sure I’d be interested as I’ve already bought a Nissan Leaf to replace the FFE, but I’m trying to figure out if the battery is worth anything to someone in the off-grid community or something like that. What’s the battery worth as is right now?

Re: 2014 FFE w/ 125,000 miles. SSN.

Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 6:56 am
by skyguy_6153
electrons wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:24 pm
qflyer, Usually a Ford dealership does have plenty of high-voltage electrical technicians, since Ford has been selling Hybrids for 15 years now. And they just go by Ford diagnostic trees to lead them through stuff anyway. I've had some bugs & written some threads on electrical gremlins in the past couple of years, but my '16 Focus Electric is going strong right now anyway.

AnnePatt, It is true these Focus Electrics will, at some point in the years, leak coolant. I've seen it in Ford Technical Service Bulletins. Out of warranty you have no alternative to just junking the car, unless you want to spend a ton.
Interestingly, the ~120-mile-range Nissan Leaf uses air cooling, so no liquid coolant can contaminate the battery. ( In Maryland, or really anywhere the temperature is usually under 100 degrees F outside, the Nissan Leaf air cooling works very well. Arizona Leafs have had some problems though. ) I'd buy a 2nd generation (the curren gen) Nissan Leaf, mainly because their range is decent and they aren't ugly like the 1st gen models!!
There is a work around that will cost you less than $15 (depending if you have the tools also (main tool you'll need is a cherrypicker). Long story short, I was having the same problem (coolant leak inside the pack, so the FFE would throw a SSN light, and a DTC for an isolation fault). With sdome help from other owners on the FFE facebook page I was able to get my FFE working again. To workaround this, you'll need to remover the upper battery pack ( just the one in the rear of the car), disassemble and remove the the modules, remove the heat exchangers/cooling plates between each cell (use a plastic prying tool to open each tab on the side of the module, it's to risky to use something like a flathead screwdriver as you could potentially rupture a cell), snap them back together and reconnect everything. As for the cooling lines on the back, and the black assembly those cooling lines connect to, leave all that out the pack, and take the black assembly to an autoparts store and have them match up some hose that'll fit the inlets on the black assembly (make sure to get 2 clamps also!). Next, you'll cut the inlets off the black assembly, and put those in their respective hoses in the car. Now just fit the clamps over the hose you got from the auto parts store, and connect the hose to the inlets.