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 Post subject: Newbie to EV
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 2:30 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 7:34 am
Posts: 34
Location: Austin, TX
I am new to the EV world and we are looking at leasing a new '16 FFE. I have never leased and it seems counterintuitive, but apparently the FFE is only good for about 3 or 4 years (?). I would buy one, but I don't want a car that is unusable after 4 years (the range diminishes to less than 40 mi). So, in this case, I guess leasing makes sense. IDK. Help!!


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 Post subject: Re: Newbie to EV
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 3:35 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 5:35 am
Posts: 10
I'm driving a 2012 that was built in November of 2011 and with moderate weather conditions I still get over 70 miles of range per charge.


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 Post subject: Re: Newbie to EV
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 3:46 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2013 6:59 pm
Posts: 87
Streetfocus wrote:
I am new to the EV world and we are looking at leasing a new '16 FFE. I have never leased and it seems counterintuitive, but apparently the FFE is only good for about 3 or 4 years (?). I would buy one, but I don't want a car that is unusable after 4 years (the range diminishes to less than 40 mi). So, in this case, I guess leasing makes sense. IDK. Help!!



Why lease a 2016 and not a 2017?


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 Post subject: Re: Newbie to EV
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 4:17 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:36 am
Posts: 2328
Location: Southeastern MI
Streetfocus wrote:
I have never leased and it seems counterintuitive, but apparently the FFE is only good for about 3 or 4 years (?).

Where did you hear this?

Your figures sound like the absolute worse case figures (or figures from early Leaf's that spent their lives in Arizona).

At the end of my 3 year lease my FFE had 30,000 miles on it and was getting the exact same range as it did when new.

_________________
2018 Cajun Red Chevy Bolt
2016 Magnetic C-Max Energi
2014 Sunset Escape
2014 Thor Axis (V-10)
2013 Focus Electric (lease returned Jan 2016 for the C-Max above)
https://spareelectrons.wordpress.com/


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 Post subject: Re: Newbie to EV
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 5:49 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 7:34 am
Posts: 34
Location: Austin, TX
Really? That's great news. I was told that since I live in a hot climate (tx), that the battery would degrade quicker and it would make more sense to just lease. (Side note, there are big incentives on the '16s now. I found a '14 with 24K miles in good condition for 9k. If it will retain over 50 mi range in this heat for at least 3 more years, I'd buy it.


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 Post subject: Re: Newbie to EV
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 5:52 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 7:34 am
Posts: 34
Location: Austin, TX
Does anyone leave their car in the sun for long periods of time (like 12 hours at a time)? It would sit unplugged at my work and I want it to be okay.


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 Post subject: Re: Newbie to EV
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 6:16 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:36 am
Posts: 2328
Location: Southeastern MI
Note that the Focus has a battery heater/cooler to keep the battery temps in a reasonable range.

I can't answer the sun questions as my FFE lived its life with me in MI. During the summer it would sit outside all day not plugged in, but around here that isn't as harsh as your location can be.

_________________
2018 Cajun Red Chevy Bolt
2016 Magnetic C-Max Energi
2014 Sunset Escape
2014 Thor Axis (V-10)
2013 Focus Electric (lease returned Jan 2016 for the C-Max above)
https://spareelectrons.wordpress.com/


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 Post subject: Re: Newbie to EV
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 6:54 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 7:34 am
Posts: 34
Location: Austin, TX
Thank you. I need someone who lives in the south to chime in with their experience. I use the AC all year round (for example, it is in the upper 70s this week). How bad does AC reduce range. I have a 40 mile total commute, and I need to know if the FFE is reasonable if I use the AC back and forth, and it sits unplugged for 12 hours or more in triple digit heat. I don't want to be stranded or anything.


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 Post subject: Re: Newbie to EV
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 7:55 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 9:10 pm
Posts: 869
Location: Chicago Area
OK, wow lots of misinformation there.

There was somebody on this forum back a few years ago from Arizona - his name had AZ in it. I don't remember him ever talking about issues with range.

The car is incredibly reliable. As JMueller said, it has heating and cooling for the battery and the battery is incredibly well protected. Turned in a three year old leased with around 24,000 miles on it, and the battery was as fresh as the day I first got it (Chicago area). I now own an over 30,000 mile three year old, and the battery is acting exactly like brand new. I see no battery degradation.

The car I own now came from Southern California. I think it gets just as hot there in the summer as it does in Texas. I don't know where the car was parked, but over 100 degree weather is not really a problem for the car.

AC has the least impact on range compared to heating. I can't say for sure, but you will likely be able to run the AC all you want.

The bigger impact will be your driving. If you choose to drive 70 - 75 MPH all the time, range will suffer in a major way. If you choose to brake late and not use the brake coach, range will suffer. Poking at the accelerator a lot will make range suffer.

There was somebody on the forum that had a ton of trouble at first getting good range. He admitted he drove hard and didn't pay any attention to the tools in the car. Once he started doing the gentle driving thing, all was good.

_________________
2014 Platinum White FFE (Turning in mid Dec. 2016 25,000 miles)
2013 Ingot Silver FFE
2012 Titanium ICE Focus
2014 Tesla Model S 85


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 Post subject: Re: Newbie to EV
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:15 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 9:10 pm
Posts: 869
Location: Chicago Area
A bunch of things about the FFE.

First and foremost lease a 2017. The car has 100 miles of range, is equipped with rapid charging (something you will be very happy you have), and is overall a better car. Lease that. Ignore all those incentives, you'll be far ahead with that car.

Now if you absolutely must have a car right now and can't wait. You have two options - lease a 2016 or buy a used FFE. DON'T BUY a 2016. The day you purchase that 2016 it will only be worth around $10,000. OK, I'm exaggerating a tiny amount, but you will be killed with depreciation if you want to get something different in a few years. You'll pay maybe $25,000 for the car, and at the end of your loan, you will be lucky to sell it for $8,000 - super lucky. And you will be upside down on your loan for a very long time (you owe more than the car is worth). Granted when you PURCHASE an EV, there is a $7,500 tax credit, and possibly a Texas rebate. When you Lease the car, you DON'T get that incentive. And it is possible our beloved president will repeal the $7,500 credit - you can't know what will happen this year, don't count on the credit.

Lease is incredibly simple. You rent the car for three years. At the end of three years, you either turn it in and walk away, or you pay the residual amount you agreed to and you own the car. Here's how it worked for me - at the end of three years, Ford put a value of like $18,000 on my car. If I wanted the car, I'd have to pay $18,000 for a 3 year old car. The problem, there are dozens of FFE's in the same shape, with about the same mileage, for $9,000. I'd be stupid to buy my car at lease end. Now if Ford put a value of $5,000 on the car, that would be a great deal. I would have purchased it. But they don't do that (your lease payments would be too high). So I turned the car in, paid $210 for a just over allowable dent (highly strange, they allow a lot of dents in normal wear and tear), and walked away.

The other option is to buy a used FFE. That is actually the smart move. Getting smarter every month. There are a ton of FFE's that came off lease on the market. Good clean California cars with low mileage can be found for around $9,000 - maybe less if you shop. There are a lot advertised for $12,000 because dealers took a gamble and bought the cars at auction for too much money. They are taking a bath.

So you could just plop down some cash for a good used car. As long as the title is clean, and the car came from California, you can buy with confidence. You'll likely need a new set of tires - almost nobody put new tires on the car during the 3 year lease - they didn't need to. The tires will be pretty worn on a used car. Count around $800 for the tires. It requires low rolling resistance tires, don't just buy random cheap tires.

The thing you also have to consider is the cost of adding a 240V charger. That might cost you anywhere from $500 to $3,000. Depending on your garage (attached, detached, electric service available in your house, and which charger you buy). You won't be able to keep up with your commute with 120V that comes with the car. You'll get around 3-4 miles per hour of charging on that connection. You'll end up running into a deficit over time.

Hope that helps you. So sorry to hear all the really bad information you got about the car. There aren't a lot of them out there, but it is by far the best commuter electric car around for a good price. I really love the car for commuting and around town driving.

_________________
2014 Platinum White FFE (Turning in mid Dec. 2016 25,000 miles)
2013 Ingot Silver FFE
2012 Titanium ICE Focus
2014 Tesla Model S 85


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