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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 6:17 am 
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Location: Toronto, Ontario
I have a friend considering a 2017 FFE, but there's a few things that I need to get clarified and I haven't been able to find answers on searching yet.

Unfortunately he's thinking of living with a 120v at both work and home with 10h charging at each location. Given the 32kWh pack, and the 45km drive one way at 90kph with open backroads, hills and stop signs, I think it's dicey if it works out.

Test conditions: -6C with windchill of -17C

I've just charged with the 120v over the last 12h gaining about 4km/h. (I normally use my 240v EVSE, so this is a really painful experience.) I seem to remember that it should charge in the 8-10h range (1/2 the 240v supply), but that doesn't seem to be the case. Does anyone have any knowledge or experience to weigh in with 120v charging lifestyle?

I had set a "go time" of right now, but the cabin was not preheated to the 22C that I requested. Looking at the 2016 brochure (second to last page at bottom right) it says:
"*Effectiveness of cabin conditioning may be reduced by extreme outside temperatures when using the 120-volt charging." Which seems to be the case. I wouldn't call -6C "Extreme" but it doesn't look very promising for winter cabin conditioning off 120v.

With his situation, lets assume he starts with 160kms on the traction pack
he'd drive 45kms, loose an additional ~20kms to cabin heating so lets say he consumes 60kms (now down to 100kms left). He charges at work using 120v for 10 hours picking up 40kms (140kms). Then proceeds home consuming another 60kms (40kms left).
With that logic he's going to be at a net loss every day unless the car is able to charge for well over 12 hours at home.

I'm highly recommending he gets a 240v plug installed at home. By my math, it's the only way.

Can anyone weigh in with more information? Does anyone here live the 120v lifestyle?

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:33 am 
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Location: Livonia, MI
According to Ford.com, the 2016 Focus charges in 3.6 hours on 240V and 20 hours on 120V, while the 2017 takes 5.5 hours on 240V and 30 hours on 120V. It has a 33.5 kWh battery btw, though I'm not sure how much of that will be usable.

I'm getting mine in about 6 weeks, so I can't give 1st hand experience yet, but I intend to charge at work each morning via Ford's level 2 network and then just supplement that at home with level 1 until I get around to installing 240V in the garage. It helps that I only have a 25 mile (40 km) round trip commute.

I was wanting to plug in every night with level 1, but value charge just before my Go Times, to minimize how much power I'd actually give the car at home. If the Go Times don't actually work on level 1 though, that'd be disappointing.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 12:01 pm 
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Location: Southeastern MI
cutler03gt wrote:
I was wanting to plug in every night with level 1, but value charge just before my Go Times, to minimize how much power I'd actually give the car at home. If the Go Times don't actually work on level 1 though, that'd be disappointing.

They don't.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 2:38 pm 
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Location: Toronto, Ontario
Disappointing indeed.

Thanks!

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 3:44 pm 
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Location: Southern CA
Yep I also confirm for Go Times you need a L2 charger.
I only use the L1 charger for a little bit of battery charging in emergencies or for a little extra margin at a location without L2 available.
I got an L2 charger installed at my home a month after I got my 2014 FFE.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 3:19 am 
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I only use a 120 V recharge. The times quotes by Ford are correct. A few errands during the day and all of a sudden you need nine hours of recharge time. Without a midday charge, it effectively reduces your range to 40-50 miles if you are recharging after work at home.

However, this works fine for my needs and there isn't any reason for me to invest in a higher powered charging system.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 2:26 pm 
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My guess would be that level 1 would work OK for your friend during the warmer months but not in winter.

Jamez wrote:
Test conditions: -6C with windchill of -17C

I've just charged with the 120v over the last 12h gaining about 4km/h. (I normally use my 240v EVSE, so this is a really painful experience.) I seem to remember that it should charge in the 8-10h range (1/2 the 240v supply), but that doesn't seem to be the case. Does anyone have any knowledge or experience to weigh in with 120v charging lifestyle?


I used level 1 exclusively until the tail end of last year (decided to buy an OpenEVSE while the U.S. tax credit was still in effect - don't expect it to be renewed now) and still use it most of the time. 4km (~2.5 miles) per hour seems very low for level 1. I assume it must be primarily because of the low temp for your test. The car would want to warm up the battery significantly from -6C before charging and the heater is such an energy hog. In my warmer northern Gulf coast climate, I typically see ~4-5 miles (~6.5-8km) per h on level 1, even in winter:

120v*12A=1440w*(~75-80% efficiency)= ~1100wh per hour

~1100wh/~250wh/mile = ~4.4 miles

At the same amperage, level 2 would be twice as fast but most level 2 charging circuits will have more amps and so will typically be >4 times faster (6.6kW onboard charger in the FFE means a max of about 4.5 times faster).

If your friend would be charging all night (warming up the battery), driving a bit (with battery thermal management running), then plugging in for more level 1 at work, then the overall miles per h of charging might not be quite as abysmal as your test would indicate. So it might be workable. I would be concerned about relying on only one charging appliance (he'd be plugging in his own EVSE at work?), especially if there might be possible issues with thievery/vandalism at work (don't know if that's the case here).
Jamez wrote:
"*Effectiveness of cabin conditioning may be reduced by extreme outside temperatures when using the 120-volt charging." Which seems to be the case. I wouldn't call -6C "Extreme" but it doesn't look very promising for winter cabin conditioning off 120v.


Yeah, 1440w AC from the wall (yielding maybe ~1250w DC) certainly can't run the heater full blast (>5000w). AC in summer works OK with level 1 but pre-heating from grid electricity in a cold climate winter is definitely going to be a problem.

Is he simply balking at the cost of level 2? I just run mine off of a dryer circuit with a high amp rated switch between the dryer and EVSE - maybe ~US$600 for the EVSE and misc parts (could've done it for less).


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 4:14 am 
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Hey guys Jamez's friend here.

So my problem is at my rental (where I stay during the weekdays) I won't be able to install a level 2 charger due to landlord issues, pre-war 1910 built home (our dryer runs off of 120V, kill me now) but I will install one at my actual home (in another city and where I stay during the weekend). Money is not the issue here.. unless you're telling me to buy a second house lol.

I was hoping to run solely off of 120V at the rental home and at work. Theft would not be an issue at work since I will always have vision of it at work and it would be 10ft away from me. I also have a second car that can sub in halfway during the week too, just in case it won't charge in time. Maybe I can run to my closest Ikea and quick charge there? Haha. Thank you everyone for your inputs!


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 4:32 am 
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Location: Livonia, MI
Not sure if anyone else has any experience with one of these, but it seems handy for certain temporary situations. Though unfortunately it's probably rare that you'd have a house and/or EVSE that would work with one.

The 15A option is what would work with most houses that have NEMA 5-15 outlets, but 15A won't work for many 220V EVSEs. Not to mention that the 6-15 outlet would need to be converted to something else.

The 20A option would work with a Turbocord (from Aeroviornment), as it has the 6-20 outlet it needs, however it requires a house to have NEMA 5-20 outlets, which are rare.

But in case you have one of those ideal situations, check these out:
http://www.quick220.com/220_catalog/voltage-converters.html

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 4:55 am 
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Location: Toronto, Ontario
Thaid wrote:
Hey guys Jamez's friend here.

So my problem is at my rental (where I stay during the weekdays) I won't be able to install a level 2 charger due to landlord issues, pre-war 1910 built home (our dryer runs off of 120V, kill me now) but I will install one at my actual home (in another city and where I stay during the weekend). Money is not the issue here.. unless you're telling me to buy a second house lol.

I was hoping to run solely off of 120V at the rental home and at work. Theft would not be an issue at work since I will always have vision of it at work and it would be 10ft away from me. I also have a second car that can sub in halfway during the week too, just in case it won't charge in time. Maybe I can run to my closest Ikea and quick charge there? Haha. Thank you everyone for your inputs!



Hahaha, there he is. Thanks for clarifying for us bud.

It appears that it's an Amperage and wiring issue, that they don't have an extra 40A breaker place available (which reminds me of the new panel and service upgrade I will need to do for my second FFE :cry: )

As we've been discussing, it's really only going to affect you in the winter. This winter has been quite mild, and yah, if you break out the "other" car on Wednesdays to give the FFE a 30h charge the numbers seem to look better. You'll be able to drop the "other" car to a lower mileage insurance bracket to help a bit, and you won't have to feed it as much petrol or worry about your weekly repairs (the things we do for the love of those cars...)

I would recommend setting up the "value charge" profile in the FFE if you're doing a long charge off the 120v to avoid peak pricing. My EVSE handles that so I haven't needed to play with the FFE settings, but you really don't want to be paying the peak price if you don't have too.

IKEA only has L2 240v chargers, so it's not a "quick" charge by any means. I haven't mapped any combo chargers in our area yet, I don't think there will be many... but I've heard rumour that some Chevy dealers may be required to put one in up here for the Bolt.

I want to praise you for at least considering making such an effort to get an FFE. The good news is you're starting at a "worst case" scenario. If/when you move, and if/when your workplace or near by gets a L2 or L3 your life will become a lot less annoying.

Now get your butt over to my place and take it for a spin!

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