My experience with the new to me FFE so far...

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merkurmaniac

Active member
Joined
Jun 23, 2016
Messages
33
SO, I have a 15 year old daughter. She is about to begin driving, and I also have a 2003 BMW 525 with 118,000 miles on it. She doesn't like it, and the car has been fairly unreliable. Otherwise, she had been driving mom's minivan or my stick-shift Acura. We test drove a FFE about 5 months ago (she didn't drive it) and both the wife and daughter hated it. too small, said my daughter...They both said that they didn't like the range and couldn't care less that it was quiet and smooth.. "That kind of stuff just doesn't matter to us" they both said in unison. the car was dark blue with dark tinted windows and did feel small.

I bought this 2013 that is the blueish greenish color with cloth interior and non tinted windows. My daughter had come around to the idea of me buying an electric, realizing that she held no cards, and had to live with what I bought, and it was better than nothing. She drove the car for the first time that next day and was hooked. They both got to drive it and my daughter spent time practicing for her driver's test in it. The following Monday was MLK day, and she was home from school. She left me a note pleading for me to take my old car to work and to leave the electric to run errands with mom that day, since they would be driving a lot, and since the car was so nice and quiet and smooth....

I had installed a level 2 charger at home, and my daughter totally loves the car. She passed her driving test, and got a parking pass at school. Now I have lost that car and will be commuting in my Acura again (which I guess was always the plan...) She will be used to range anxiety as the "normal" and will not have to travel too far from home for the next year or two... I told her that I didn't get this car for her to "hobble or shackle" her to a short range, but rather, if she has plans to go far, to take the minivan instead and "be smart" about which car you'll choose. I bet that she will really not dig driving a gas car from now on. The driving examiner said that her braking was really smooth and in control. Thanks brake coach !!
 
I sold the BMW,and have my 6 speed Acura (178,000 miles) as my long range gas car and commuter. I am trying to figure out how I can live with two electrics...

Here is something interesting. In Texas, our electricity is deregulated and really cheap. Typical prices might be 10cents per kWhr. I have an odd plan where any month that I use in excess of 1,000 kWhrs, I get a bill credit of $75. I have done tons of energy improvements (insulation, LEDs, air sealing the attic, variable speed pool pump, 20 SEER air conditioner) and my bills are really low, the last 3 months have been less than $70 for a 3,800 sq ft house. The effective rate that I paid was 5.5 cents per kWHr. !!!

I am an engineer and have been tracking energy usage to see the effects of my improvements in my house and they have been dramatic. So much so, that there are 3 months of the year where I may potentially not hit my 1,000 kWhr threshold and will miss out on the bill credit, making my bill much higher. This is a small reason that I wanted to add the FFE in January, as the three tough months are Jan, Feb, and March .

With me driving the FFE to work (which I only got to do for one week, before my daughter got here school parking pass and the car was confiscated) I'll raise consumption enough that I'll meet the mark all three months. But, my daughter's commute is only 10 miles round trip to school. So....

I find myself in the odd position where if my teenage daughter doesn't drive enough, it will actually cost me $150 !! ?? Kind of crazy. I may have to yank the car for a week each of those two months if its not driven enough and I'll drive it to work, a 44 miles round trip ....

Crazy... "Uh Lauren, if you don't drive the new car more, I'll have to take it away from you"... :shock:
 
merkurmaniac said:
I have an odd plan where any month that I use in excess of 1,000 kWhrs, I get a bill credit of $75.
That is really odd: my electric company keeps telling me: "You are 86th out of the 100th closest homes near you for the month, here is how you can save electricity?" (Of course they know I have a plug in and thus will consume more kWh than my neighbors but still have me ranking--its really silly.)

If I were to go get a new EV today it would be a Bolt hands down.
 
jmueller065 said:
If I were to go get a new EV today it would be a Bolt hands down.
If the chart was correct in the article I read about the bolt You won't be able to buy one in Michigan until September at the earliest. I'd probably just get another FFE if I were buying one today since The Bolt is 10-15K more than the FFE... No I think I'd just buy a $500 beater and drive it until I can buy a Model 3.
 
What a great story. Funny how when people drive these cars they end up loving them and figuring out how to make them work out.

Think your solution is another used FFE. I've never found a used car that is so reliable that I'm willing to actually buy one. I was dyed in the wool new car, never buy used. Until I bought the 2013 used FFE. I'd buy another in a second.
 
Ewwwwww a Bolt???? Seriously? Can you imagine how much trouble GM will have with that car? That thing will be the biggest pile of garbage in the universe. No I'd run hundreds of miles the other direction from that car. I'd rather have a C-Max if I were looking at a car in that price range (oh, gosh you have one of those!!!)

The only way I'd even remotely consider a Bolt is test driving one. I will bet on really cheap junk plastic inside it. And horrible handling. Noooooo.

Once the world of the Model 3 settles down, I'd consider that car. But it will be far more expensive than the Bolt. It will be far better. But that's another story. Settled down Model 3 time is probably over 2 years away.
 
Once the kids or whomever have to pay their own money for the petrol and repairs of the old car, they'd quickly swing around to the EV's. My eldest daughter (11) is jonesing for my 2005 MINI that I've taken out of service due to the astronomical repairs and cost to run.

Very strange that you get a rebate for HIGH energy consumption - I guess there's a surplus down there and they're trying to dump the electricity a specific times.

As for the Bolt discussion... I'd be hard pressed to get into anything short of a Tesla after enjoying the Titanium interior of the FFE. The Bolt may have more range, but I don't think the materials/touch-feel quality is as impressive.
 
EVA said:
Ewwwwww a Bolt???? Seriously? Can you imagine how much trouble GM will have with that car? That thing will be the biggest pile of garbage in the universe. No I'd run hundreds of miles the other direction from that car. I'd rather have a C-Max if I were looking at a car in that price range (oh, gosh you have one of those!!!)

The only way I'd even remotely consider a Bolt is test driving one. I will bet on really cheap junk plastic inside it. And horrible handling. Noooooo.
Have you read or watched any reviews on it? I'm guessing not.

All the reviews for the Bolt have been very positive (much like the early reviews for the FFE were). It handles very well, accelerates from 0-60 in something like 6 seconds (yeah at least 2 secs off the FFE). Has a ton of cool tech in it.

In addition: There are now a bunch of youtube videos of owners showing off their car (granted these will be early adopters that are more than just a little biased). From what I've seen it doesn't look 1/2 bad.

The C-Max is a nice car--I've driven a few before I got this one so I knew what I was getting into. If Ford could double the EV miles it would be perfect for me (in winter I'm getting about 13-16 miles on electricity, in summer about 25). I do miss driving the FFE around simply because it was electric only (I'm now hitting the pump about once every other month on average: every 1000 miles in the summer, 500 miles in the winter).
 
jmueller065 said:
EVA said:
Ewwwwww a Bolt???? Seriously? Can you imagine how much trouble GM will have with that car? That thing will be the biggest pile of garbage in the universe. No I'd run hundreds of miles the other direction from that car. I'd rather have a C-Max if I were looking at a car in that price range (oh, gosh you have one of those!!!)

The only way I'd even remotely consider a Bolt is test driving one. I will bet on really cheap junk plastic inside it. And horrible handling. Noooooo.
Have you read or watched any reviews on it? I'm guessing not.

All the reviews for the Bolt have been very positive (much like the early reviews for the FFE were). It handles very well, accelerates from 0-60 in something like 6 seconds (yeah at least 2 secs off the FFE). Has a ton of cool tech in it.

In addition: There are now a bunch of youtube videos of owners showing off their car (granted these will be early adopters that are more than just a little biased). From what I've seen it doesn't look 1/2 bad.

The C-Max is a nice car--I've driven a few before I got this one so I knew what I was getting into. If Ford could double the EV miles it would be perfect for me (in winter I'm getting about 13-16 miles on electricity, in summer about 25). I do miss driving the FFE around simply because it was electric only (I'm now hitting the pump about once every other month on average: every 1000 miles in the summer, 500 miles in the winter).

GM makes garbage. They have the worst track record on earth for making crummy cars with problems. Quality is job 100 at GM. There is no way in the world they are building something that will work well. I was burned really badly with a 2002 Buick. Even though GM knew there were major repair problems, they still use the same technology in current cars - haven't changed a thing. Ford has them beat by a million miles.

Yeah OK, all you kids get off my lawn, rant over.

And yes one of the early reviews I read talked about how small the thing is. 200 mile range is the only selling point. The early reviews for the Volt were amazing. And look at the "luxury" inside that thing - compared to the FFE. And GM will sell a lot of them. Well, maybe. If gas prices stay or go lower, they won't sell many. If gas prices go up (required to sustain using shale oil or fracking to feed that new pipeline that just got moved forward) then they will sell.

Ew no, just don't buy one. You've done so right with Ford.
 
EVA said:
Ew no, just don't buy one. You've done so right with Ford.
LOL Well since I have family in Ford I'm kind of stuck there if I want to keep getting great deals.

In addition, I'm only 1 year into my 3 year lease on the C-Max. On top of that GM isn't offering option 1 pricing on the Bolt (so employees aren't getting a discount on it either, I can get the vendor plan through work but if employees aren't getting special pricing neither are vendors) and yet I'm seeing tons of them around here in southeastern Michigan (must all be management leases or employee test cars--none have had manufacturer plates).

My immediate thought after Ford's non-announcement at the North American International Auto show (non-announcement because they said "hey we're bringing the Ranger and Bronco back, oh and we'll be making a 300 mile BEV SUV" but they didn't show anything (oh look the 2018 F-150 big deal). At least they could do would be to plop a Euro Ranger on stage (those are so sweet looking)...nope just "hey by the way..." ) lol ok rant over for me.

Where was I, oh yeah: immediate thought after their announcement was to buy the C-Max at lease end and trade it in for the magical 300 mile BEV SUV (seeing as my lease will end about a year too soon for the BEV SUV).

What I'd really like them to do: As long as they are bringing back the Ranger offer a PHEV powertrain option (no way they'd make a Ranger BEV) with about 50-60 miles of electric range. I'd buy that in a heartbeat. Plenty of room in that guy for batteries.

UK Ford Ranger:
BlobServer
 
A lot of GM haters have the same kind of story...." I had an '87 Buick and it was a POS..."

I can tell you my fleet consisted of an FFE and two Volts. All three cars were essentially trouble free, although it was the FFE that rolled over and died a month before the lease expired. At that point I didn't care, it had done its job. I had it towed to the dealer and terminated the lease when they couldn't fix it in a month.

I'm replacing the FFE with a Bolt and have no worries about quality. Ford has essentially surrendered the BEV market by offering a 100 mile car in a 200 mile world.
 
michael said:
Ford has essentially surrendered the BEV market by offering a 100 mile car in a 200 mile world.

I'm not so sure. Ford still has the corner on the market of new sub $15K EVs, after incentives. A Bolt will still be almost double that.

BTW, I went down to my local Chevy dealer and took a quick drive around in a Bolt. Nice driving car, much more get up and go than the Focus, lots of room inside. But, interior felt cheap (typical GM rental car feel), and the car just looks awkward. I'm still partial to the look of the Focus....probably why I own two of them!!

Keith
 
Pearl said:
merkurmaniac said:
campfamily said:
Ford still has the corner on the market of new sub $15K EVs, after incentives.

What do you mean here ? Are you talking 2017 FFE ?

More like $20K in my market.

After rebates, dealer discounts, etc., I bought my 2015 Focus, brand new, for a bit under $25K. If I had stuck with a cloth, rather than leather interior, the price would have been closer to $24K. $7.5K federal tax rebate, plus $2500 California rebate, brings the price down under $15K.

Since I bought my car, the California rebate has been changed to be income dependent. I don't think I qualify for the full $2500 any more, but if that were the case, the car would be owned by my 21 year old son, who as a college student is clearing about $12K in income each year, so I know he would qualify.

The Bolt is about $38K MSRP. Give it a few months and I'm sure there will be some discounts, but not to the level that Ford is offering. Lets say $35K for argument. Same $7500 federal, $2500 state rebates, the price is $25K. $10K more than the Focus. Yes, way more range, but for 95% of my trips (and I think most everybody else's trips), the Focus is sufficient.

I'm going to guess that resale on a Bolt is going to be a bit better than what we're seeing with the current crop of EVs (minus Tesla), because it meets the perceived range needs of more people. However, as the battery fades, that's going to decrease quickly as well.

Keith
 
campfamily said:
After rebates, dealer discounts, etc., I bought my 2015 Focus, brand new, for a bit under $25K. If I had stuck with a cloth, rather than leather interior, the price would have been closer to $24K. $7.5K federal tax rebate, plus $2500 California rebate, brings the price down under $15K.

I wonder how long the federal tax rebate deal will last with the new administration and Republican congress+Senate?
Not sure if they will continue to subsidy electric vehicles and solar power in the future?
 
NightHawk said:
I wonder how long the federal tax rebate deal will last with the new administration and Republican congress+Senate?
Not sure if they will continue to subsidy electric vehicles and solar power in the future?
Elon has Trump's ear so I'm optimistically thinking they might do some good and extend the rebate for all by just picking a date and make it so the rebate is good for all manufacturers regardless of how many units are sold until that date, say 2020 or 2025. That would simplify things like having to keep track of how many are sold. Also the companies who pushed EVs won't be punished by the credit ending earlier for them.
 
triangles said:
NightHawk said:
I wonder how long the federal tax rebate deal will last with the new administration and Republican congress+Senate?
Not sure if they will continue to subsidy electric vehicles and solar power in the future?
Elon has Trump's ear so I'm optimistically thinking they might do some good and extend the rebate for all by just picking a date and make it so the rebate is good for all manufacturers regardless of how many units are sold until that date, say 2020 or 2025. That would simplify things like having to keep track of how many are sold. Also the companies who pushed EVs won't be punished by the credit ending earlier for them.
Or maybe he has so many other shiny things to draw his attention, he won't even notice the rebate, or understand it. He has a lot of shiny things on his plate. This one probably wouldn't make much noise one way or the other - who is going to complain if he repeals it? Who is going to notice if he does anything about it? A bunch of tree hugging battery car drivers. Certainly not a big news agency. So I'm guessing, he doesn't touch it at all.
 
EVA said:
Or maybe he has so many other shiny things to draw his attention, he won't even notice the rebate, or understand it. He has a lot of shiny things on his plate. This one probably wouldn't make much noise one way or the other - who is going to complain if he repeals it? Who is going to notice if he does anything about it? A bunch of tree hugging battery car drivers. Certainly not a big news agency. So I'm guessing, he doesn't touch it at all.

But in the next several months when the Congress starts putting together the new budget looking to reduce spending in some areas, I suspect alternative energy funding might be one of the items on a chopping block? ;)
 
I am new to the EV world and we are looking at leasing a new '16 FFE. I have never leased and it seems counterintuitive, but apparently the FFE is only good for about 3 or 4 years (?). I would buy one, but I don't want a car that is unusable after 4 years (the range diminishes to less than 40 mi). So, in this case, I guess leasing makes sense. IDK. Help!!
 
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