pjam3
Posts: 162
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:58 pm

Re: First Range Challenge

Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:33 pm

It's a nice toy car, but if you have small children, who in their right mind would go out in the cold and let their kid freeze ? An abusive parent maybe, but not a caring one. That's why a car that can't really use the heater is kind of pointless in most of the country. It's a nice second car, but on days where your kids need to get back/forth to events and school, nobody wants to be stuck in a freezing car and get frost bite because they can't use the heater.

I also notices the FFE is pretty much useless when it comes to charging devices. I tried to charge two different phones (LG G2 & a Moto X) and it really doesn't do a damn thing. I tried the USB, the DC, and so on and it just sucks. If you have a dead phone, you pretty much can't depend on the FFE to charge it. I could charge either phone in no time at home or in my other truck. In the FFE, it pretty much went up about 2 percent on a day where I spent about 4 hours in the car or charging the car at a grocery store.

I love the car and try to use it more than anything else, but it's always a mission and a worry to do anything. I've been getting around 75 miles on avg these days, but coming back home, I know I'm screwed if I don't have 20+ miles. I can go 1.5 miles to the WF, charge it, come back home and it'll be -10. I don't thin it's some huge incline or hill, but no matter which way I go, it'll be -10+ by the time I get home. You would figure going down the hill I'd get that back, but I don't. I'll get around +5 most of the time.

All I know is when I had to go to the airport the other week I jumped in my truck at the last minute, drove for 35 minutes, parked it, and flew off to San Jose for a project. There was no thought at all of using the FFE because I drove to the airport before and I had to stop off to charge it before I got there. They have a couple of solar charging parking spots at the one airport now, but I can't leave my car plugged in for a week. But that's the thing about the FFE and many of these 80 mile cars. It's rarely just a get up and go and not think about kind of car. Most of the time I don't car, but there are many people who do and many times where I need to get somewhere in a hurry and don't want to worry about if I'll make it or not. For me, it's always like driving on E in a gas car. That is stressful and annoying.

WattsUp
Posts: 2113
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:58 am
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: First Range Challenge

Wed Feb 05, 2014 2:28 pm

pjam3 wrote:I also notices the FFE is pretty much useless when it comes to charging devices.
Your FFE must have some kind of USB problem. Mine charges my iPhone normally.

That said, keep in mind the USB (and 12V) port are not powered when you turn the car off. So, if you're trying to charge things while you're away from your car (parked, turned off), they won't charge.
pjam3 wrote:You would figure going down the hill I'd get that back, but I don't. I'll get around +5 most of the time.
Status is not regeneration. When your Status goes up, your not necessarily getting anything "back". The math is simply working out differently.

Status is mainly based on the current average Wh/mi and the current SOC (although these are both indirectly affected by regeneration). The most likely reason for your status to go up is that your average Wh/mi decreased. But this doesn't necessarily mean that any energy has been "added back" to your battery.
pjam3 wrote:For me, it's always like driving on E in a gas car. That is stressful and annoying.
Sounds like you chose the wrong car for your use case.

I use my FFE mainly to drive to work (which is 15 miles away) and do errands (within a 30 mile radius). For this use case, the car is pretty much "drive without thinking". It's not a toy, it's my real car. But, that's the use case I understood that I was addressing when making my choice.

I am not stressed and annoyed with my FFE. I love it!
2013 FFE, Platinum White, Delivered January 2013
2017 MS, Midnight Silver Metallic, Delivered February 2017
Use my referral code (http://ts.la/matt4377) to save $1000 on your next Tesla AND get free unlimited Supercharging!

davideos
Posts: 406
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:58 pm
Location: So Cal

Re: First Range Challenge

Wed Feb 05, 2014 2:56 pm

I look forward to every chance I get to drive my FFE. When I first got it, I didn't use the heater or the AC much as for some reason I was trying to get as much distance as I could on the car. So unless I'm "trying something different", I just use the cabin temp controls as they are intended to be. I do fiddle with it a little bit to ensure too much energy isn't unnecessarily used. For instance, if I just want some outside air, I ensure the temp is down to 'LO' so the heater doesn't come on unnecessarily.

Currently, I don't top off the car anymore as a rule of thumb. I go 15mi to work on Monday and charge at 120v everyday for at least half the day and I don't charge at home. Sometimes I get more charge at work than energy expended to get to work. My goal is to keep this up through Friday without ever having to charge at home.

One weekend I did take the car out for a somewhat challenging road test. I had about 80mi to go so I kept in the slow lane on the FW driving behind the slowest vehicle. This kept me around 55MPH and I was able to stretch my miles a long way. I think I ended up with more than 10 miles to spare. I don't like driving this way, but at least it assures me that if it appears I'm going to miss my mark, and I'm driving *my* normal, I can take measures to increase my range.

If find the whole experience quite fun and enjoyable. I realize it isn't as convenient for everyone and I can only hope my arrangement lasts until I get an EV with longer range.

pjam3
Posts: 162
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:58 pm

Re: First Range Challenge

Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:16 am

WattsUp wrote:
pjam3 wrote:I also notices the FFE is pretty much useless when it comes to charging devices.
Your FFE must have some kind of USB problem. Mine charges my iPhone normally.

That said, keep in mind the USB (and 12V) port are not powered when you turn the car off. So, if you're trying to charge things while you're away from your car (parked, turned off), they won't charge.
pjam3 wrote:You would figure going down the hill I'd get that back, but I don't. I'll get around +5 most of the time.
Status is not regeneration. When your Status goes up, your not necessarily getting anything "back". The math is simply working out differently.

Status is mainly based on the current average Wh/mi and the current SOC (although these are both indirectly affected by regeneration). The most likely reason for your status to go up is that your average Wh/mi decreased. But this doesn't necessarily mean that any energy has been "added back" to your battery.
pjam3 wrote:For me, it's always like driving on E in a gas car. That is stressful and annoying.
Sounds like you chose the wrong car for your use case.

I use my FFE mainly to drive to work (which is 15 miles away) and do errands (within a 30 mile radius). For this use case, the car is pretty much "drive without thinking". It's not a toy, it's my real car. But, that's the use case I understood that I was addressing when making my choice.

I am not stressed and annoyed with my FFE. I love it!

This is my point though, it's a toy car that costs a lot of money. If the only use for the car is about 30 miles a day, that is an expensive toy and to do anything else, you have another car. That's not going to get anybody buying it. It'll just get a bunch of us with extra funds to buy it.

I get annoyed and stressed because I try and max out as much as I can and I can't charge at home as I live in a condo that isn't putting in any charging stations or upgraded outdoor outlets. There was a guy who has a Tesla on order and we were talking to the Condo Association and developer of the complex and they thought it was interesting, but to much hassle and not enough usage. So not anytime soon.

It's not just the USB. It's also the DC outlet/would have been some old school lighter outlet back in the day, that doesn't really charge either phone. It takes forever to charge them and it's rather useless to even think if you have 5 percent on your phone, you'll get enough on some 30 minute drive that you'll be able to use said phone.

The FFE is a great car and I love it, but it's a great car, as you said, if you don't really use it that much. Which means you need another car that gets far more miles to do anything else. I really want the Electric car market to expand and become better, I'm not sold on a car that will easily handle your 15 mile commute to/from work.

In all honesty to me, a 15 mile commute is a bike commute, not really a car commute. There might be days it's cold or raining or you don't feel up to it, but in the grand scheme of things, 30 miles a day on a bike is far better than a FFE. Better for the environment, better for your health, and so on. I used to ride a bike up in the Bay Area about 25 miles a day to/from work and on weekends I would ride from San Jose up to San Fran and back. To me, you don't need a car to drive 15 miles to work.

Richmond72
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Jan 26, 2014 1:52 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: First Range Challenge

Thu Feb 06, 2014 3:02 am

I really don't understand why someone would buy an electric car without confirming they were able install a charger at their home..... and then blame the car for their range anxiety. If you were able to charge at home, I think you would enjoy your car more. If I were as miserable as you sound regarding owning your car, I would have to trade it in. No need to be that unhappy.

I don't mean to sound like as a$$, I just think life is too short to be unhappy with a car.

jmueller065
Posts: 2386
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:36 am
Location: Southeastern MI
Contact: Website

Re: First Range Challenge

Thu Feb 06, 2014 4:23 am

pjam3 wrote:This is my point though, it's a toy car that costs a lot of money. If the only use for the car is about 30 miles a day, that is an expensive toy and to do anything else, you have another car. That's not going to get anybody buying it. It'll just get a bunch of us with extra funds to buy it.
My driving patterns have not changed since I got the FFE: Before the FFE I drove my F-350 which got to be too expensive for daily use so I leased a commuter car (our 2012 ICE Focus) then Ford had the great lease deals on the FFE last year so I handed over the ICE Focus to the wife and leased the FFE. For all 3 cars my daily driving was the same: weekday commute of about 30 miles followed by general running about in the evening for "stuff" (grocery store, my son's sporting activities, etc.). I wouldn't call my F-350, or the ICE Focus a toy car and they went the same distance as the FFE every day. In addition: The lease on the FFE is the about same monthly as the lease on the ICE Focus. (We went from spending over $500/month in gas for an Edge + F-350 to spending about $120 on gas and $30 on electricity monthly for the two Focuses.)
pjam3 wrote:It's not just the USB. It's also the DC outlet/would have been some old school lighter outlet back in the day, that doesn't really charge either phone. It takes forever to charge them and it's rather useless to even think if you have 5 percent on your phone, you'll get enough on some 30 minute drive that you'll be able to use said phone.
I also have no issues charging my iPhone and iPad via the USB ports. In addition we have a 12V to USB converter plugged into the rear 12V outlet that my son uses to charge his iPhone as well: We've had no issues with that either.
pjam3 wrote:In all honesty to me, a 15 mile commute is a bike commute, not really a car commute. There might be days it's cold or raining or you don't feel up to it, but in the grand scheme of things, 30 miles a day on a bike is far better than a FFE. Better for the environment, better for your health, and so on. I used to ride a bike up in the Bay Area about 25 miles a day to/from work and on weekends I would ride from San Jose up to San Fran and back. To me, you don't need a car to drive 15 miles to work.
That may be true in your area of the country, not here: For a good 6 months of the year there is no way you'd want to ride a bike or walk for 30 miles daily--especially now: The piles of snow everywhere are taller than the people walking around. (In fact on the news they keep warning people about riding a bike in the snow--apparently there are a few brave souls who try it and sometimes the end up being a hood ornament.)

I agree with Richmond72: Your biggest issue is simply that you can't get a Level 2 charger at home. Its a big difference when you know you'll wake up every day with a "full tank". Before I got our Level 2 at home I was always careful not to drive it more than about 40 miles because I knew at Level 1 it wouldn't be full in the morning.
2018 Cajun Red Chevy Bolt
2016 Magnetic C-Max Energi (lease returned)
2014 Sunset Escape
2014 Thor Axis (V-10)
2013 Focus Electric (lease returned Jan 2016 for the C-Max above)
https://spareelectrons.wordpress.com/

Gigi
Posts: 136
Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2013 8:08 pm
Location: East Cobb, Georgia

Re: First Range Challenge

Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:55 am

pjam3 wrote:. . . I love the car and try to use it more than anything else, but it's always a mission and a worry to do anything . . . For me, it's always like driving on E in a gas car. That is stressful and annoying.
I'm sorry things aren't working out between you and your FFE, pjam3. Perhaps, the first thing a sales consultant should ask a prospective FFE buyer should be, "Will you be able to install a level 2 charging station at home?" If you were able to charge at home overnight and wake up in the morning with a full charge, I'll bet you would like your FFE a lot more.

My situation is not so difficult as yours and I don't have to worry about kids being bored when the car is charging or complaining when it's cold.

Being new to the FFElectric, my wife and I are trying to figure out our most comfortable balance among commuting distance (54 miles for her), outside temperature, heater use, and a reliable amount of surplus left in the evening for her to use for other purposes like grocery shopping, going to choir practice, visiting our adult children, etc. We like the idea of driving past gas stations, but neither of us is so committed to reducing our carbon footprint or saving money that we are willing to give up being comfortable temperature-wise when we drive.

When it is cold, our "plan B" is simple. I drive the FFElectric for my shorter commute and she drives our Fusion Energi in comfort for as far as she needs to go. Our "plan C" is also simple. If we both need more miles than the FFE will give in comfort, she drives the Fusion and I fire up my F-150. It sucks a lot of gas, but I need to run it every now and then anyway. I'm just in the process of figuring out the mileage and ambient temperature numbers that give us confidence and comfort. So far, our plan has been trouble free.

This morning, ambient temperature is down in the 20s. Rather than worry about the heater affecting her range, my wife just drove the Fusion Energi. Now I get to decide whether I drive the Electric or the truck. I've got 62 miles to go today. MFM tells me that I have 87 miles on the battery. If it were in the 50s or 60s outside, I would count on returning home with 15-25 miles to spare, but in this temperature, in order for me to be comfortable, I am going to run the heat. I am still in the process of learning how much that cuts into range. How close am I willing to cut it today? What will it be, FFE or F-150?

Update: It was just cold enough that I decided to take the F-150 this morning knowing that I could drive in comfort with no range worries. When I went out to the truck, I found the battery dead. This is what I get for parking a vehicle with an old battery for two weeks. Rather than just going with the FFE, I got a jump and headed off with stopping at Sam's Club for a new battery on my itinerary. If you're going to rely on a backup, it's a good idea to make sure it can start in cold weather!
2014 Ford Focus Electric - Oxford White
2013 Ford Fusion Energi SE - White Platinum Metallic Tri-coat
2012 Ford Fusion Hybrid - Tuxedo Black Metallic
2005 Ford F-150 Lariat - Arizona Beige Metallic
East Cobb County, Georgia

jdorff
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:15 am
Location: Raleigh - Durham, NC USA

Re: First Range Challenge

Sun Feb 09, 2014 2:16 pm

pjam3 wrote:It's a nice toy car, but if you have small children, who in their right mind would go out in the cold and let their kid freeze ?
Hey now, I take my kids to preschool and kindergarten every weekday and we are perfectly warm and safe. The kids love "charge up car" and they love plugging it in and watching the ring glow.

danholl
Site Moderator
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:36 am

Re: First Range Challenge

Sun Feb 09, 2014 7:42 pm

Plus you can warm up the car while it is still plugged so it is nice and cozy when you get in. Morning temps in Rochester NY this year have mostly been near zero - nice to have a warm car to start out in.

Return to “General / Main Focus Electric Owners Forum”